{"id":25997,"date":"2020-03-02T12:02:00","date_gmt":"2020-03-02T17:02:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/?p=25997"},"modified":"2020-02-16T12:25:46","modified_gmt":"2020-02-16T17:25:46","slug":"mining-oxygen-on-mars","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/2020\/03\/02\/mining-oxygen-on-mars\/","title":{"rendered":"Mining Oxygen on Mars"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">From a Valentine&#8217;s Day talk by <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine\">Jeffrey Hoffman<\/a>, an astronaut-turned-professor who is now part of an effort to mine oxygen out of the Martian atmosphere&#8230;. If the <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Mars_Oxygen_ISRU_Experiment\">MOXIE system<\/a> works and Blue Origin gets humans to Mars, they can come back without having had to pack 80 percent of their rocket fuel for the trip home. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-gallery columns-2 is-cropped wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex\"><ul class=\"blocks-gallery-grid\"><li class=\"blocks-gallery-item\"><figure><a href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1520\" height=\"1162\" src=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401-1520x1162.jpg\" alt=\"\" data-id=\"25998\" data-full-url=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401.jpg\" data-link=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/?attachment_id=25998\" class=\"wp-image-25998\" srcset=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401-1520x1162.jpg 1520w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401-1024x783.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401-300x229.jpg 300w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401-768x587.jpg 768w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401-1536x1174.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60401.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1520px) 100vw, 1520px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/li><li class=\"blocks-gallery-item\"><figure><a href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1520\" height=\"1140\" src=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441-1520x1140.jpg\" alt=\"\" data-id=\"25999\" data-full-url=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441.jpg\" data-link=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/?attachment_id=25999\" class=\"wp-image-25999\" srcset=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441-1520x1140.jpg 1520w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441-768x576.jpg 768w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60441.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1520px) 100vw, 1520px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/li><\/ul><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Professor Hoffman explained that, though there is plenty of water in the Martian crust it takes too much energy to extract it. Thus, the plan is to &#8220;mine&#8221; the atmosphere, which is 96 percent CO2 (should be toasty warm from the greenhouse effect, except that atmospheric pressure is comparable at the Martian surface to what we have at 100,000&#8242; above sea level).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hoffman and collaborators&#8217; experiment will launch in July 2020 and land in February 2021. The Mars journey will also be 7 months for humans, kind of like being on a cruise ship in Asia right now. The shocking news for movie fans is that <em>The Martian<\/em> is not scientifically accurate. The dramatic wind that forces an evacuation and is blowing stuff around would have to move at 1,000 mph to have enough force, given the thin atmosphere. In fact, the highest recorded winds on Mars are roughly 60 mph.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As with other astronauts I&#8217;ve talked to recently, Hoffman is not a fan of centralized government-run rocketry. Regarding the SLS, which promises to cost taxpayers $20 billion at least: &#8220;Maybe they will launch it a few times. It is Saturn V technology.&#8221; In his view, SpaceX and Blue Origin are where the innovation happens. The government &#8220;monopoly&#8221; had cost us decades of potential progress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">One thing I learned: this next Mars mission will include <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/JPL_Mars_Helicopter_Scout\">a helicopter<\/a>! Also, landing on Mars is a combination of the worst features of the Earth and Moon. There is the friction from entering the atmosphere, as on Earth, but not enough atmosphere to slow down with wings or a regular parachute.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sidenote: Hoffman first came to MIT because of <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Walter_Lewin\">Walter Lewin<\/a>, whose physics lectures are now securely in a <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Memory_hole\">memory hole<\/a> due to #MeToo issues.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Hoffman flew on five Shuttle missions, logged 1,211 hours in space, and did multiple spacewalks, including one to fix the Hubble telescope. An example of &#8220;bravery&#8221;? Perhaps not. There&#8217;s a talk on <em>real <\/em>bravery today at 4 pm:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"aligncenter size-large is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60451.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60451-1074x1520.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-26000\" width=\"418\" height=\"591\" srcset=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60451-1074x1520.jpg 1074w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60451-724x1024.jpg 724w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60451-212x300.jpg 212w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60451-768x1087.jpg 768w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60451-1086x1536.jpg 1086w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60451.jpg 1357w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 418px) 100vw, 418px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What else do we find in the corridors at MIT? &#8220;The Trump administration is the noxious product of the capitalist system&#8221; (but didn&#8217;t most of the Wall Street capitalists support Hillary?)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"aligncenter size-large is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60461.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60461-1194x1520.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-26001\" width=\"451\" height=\"574\" srcset=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60461-1194x1520.jpg 1194w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60461-804x1024.jpg 804w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60461-236x300.jpg 236w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60461-768x978.jpg 768w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60461-1206x1536.jpg 1206w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60461.jpg 1508w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 451px) 100vw, 451px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">A poster on &#8220;ethnomathematics&#8221;:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"aligncenter size-large is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60501.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60501-1243x1520.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-26002\" width=\"418\" height=\"511\" srcset=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60501-1243x1520.jpg 1243w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60501-837x1024.jpg 837w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60501-245x300.jpg 245w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60501-768x939.jpg 768w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60501-1256x1536.jpg 1256w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60501.jpg 1570w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 418px) 100vw, 418px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">(If these &#8220;traditional and indigenous societies&#8221; are doing interesting stuff, why isn&#8217;t it just &#8220;mathematics&#8221;? Why do they need a special numbers nerdism ghetto?)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">We crashed a Valentine&#8217;s Day party for a group of PhD students in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science. Hollywood-style background:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"aligncenter size-large is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60511.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60511-1140x1520.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-26003\" width=\"300\" height=\"400\" srcset=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60511-1140x1520.jpg 1140w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60511-768x1024.jpg 768w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60511-225x300.jpg 225w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60511-1152x1536.jpg 1152w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60511.jpg 1440w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The future engineering PhDs pour themselves coffee:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\"><figure class=\"aligncenter size-large is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60491.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60491-1520x1140.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-26004\" width=\"469\" height=\"352\" srcset=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60491-1520x1140.jpg 1520w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60491-1024x768.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60491-300x225.jpg 300w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60491-768x576.jpg 768w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60491-1536x1152.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/02\/IMG_60491.jpg 1920w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 469px) 100vw, 469px\" \/><\/a><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Circling back to Professor Hoffman&#8230; As with other retired astronauts I have met, this guy is incredibly fit and sharp at age 75. Makes one wonder why humans age at all. If we can live to 75 with hardly any deficits accumulating, why can&#8217;t we live to 750? If nearly all of us drop dead by 100, why don&#8217;t we drop dead at 10? Most of our cells have to go through <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sciencefocus.com\/the-human-body\/what-cells-in-the-human-body-live-the-longest\/\">at least one replacement cycle by age 10<\/a>, right?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>From a Valentine&#8217;s Day talk by Jeffrey Hoffman, an astronaut-turned-professor who is now part of an effort to mine oxygen out of the Martian atmosphere&#8230;. If the MOXIE [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[46,18],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-25997","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-mit","category-science"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.8 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Mining Oxygen on Mars - Philip Greenspun\u2019s Weblog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/2020\/03\/02\/mining-oxygen-on-mars\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Mining Oxygen on Mars - Philip Greenspun\u2019s Weblog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"From a Valentine&#8217;s Day talk by Jeffrey Hoffman, an astronaut-turned-professor who is now part of an effort to mine oxygen out of the Martian atmosphere&#8230;. 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