{"id":6767,"date":"2015-01-23T12:44:47","date_gmt":"2015-01-23T16:44:47","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/?p=6767"},"modified":"2015-01-23T12:44:47","modified_gmt":"2015-01-23T16:44:47","slug":"supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/2015\/01\/23\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\/","title":{"rendered":"Supreme Court hears the gay marriage question"},"content":{"rendered":"

Friends have been asking me what our forthcoming book has to say about gay marriage, now that the U.S. Supreme Court may force all states to provide and recognize same-sex marriage. (Forbes<\/em> article<\/a> by Ilya Shapiro,\u00a0who says “marriage is yet another area of policy government should exit”) One thing that we’re quoting came from this weblog, in a comment on Maryland’s new custody dispute resolution laws<\/a>: “How about let\u2019s focus on ending marriage in this country. It\u2019s well past the point of saving. The ticks weigh more than the dog.”<\/p>\n

Here’s an excerpt on the mess caused by the current situation, from our Kentucky chapter:<\/p>\n

“One tsunami moving across the country is the gay marriage situation,” said Haynes [our litigator-interviewee]. “We have a statute from 1998 that defines marriage as being between one man and one woman, but a federal court judge has ruled that it is unconstitutional.” Where do Kentuckians stand on the issue? “There has been a shift in public approval and it is now about 50\/50,” said Haynes, “while lawyers ask ‘What’s so special about gay people that they get to avoid the horror of divorce?'” How does it work to be a state where gay marriage is illegal in a country where at least some states allow same-sex marriage? “I’ve got a case right now [August 2014] that a local judge is hanging onto. It is a lesbian couple with no children. They were legally married in Massachusetts. One spouse is a disabled Iraqi war veteran. The court system refuses to divorce them, which means they would have to go back to Massachusetts and live there for a year to get Massachusetts jurisdiction for the divorce.” What does Haynes think of the conundrum? “If you’re against gay marriage, why aren’t you in favor of gay divorce?”<\/p>\n

The rest is in a chapter on the History of Divorce in America<\/a>:<\/p>\n

None of the attorneys interviewed expressed opposition to gay marriage. “That’s inventory,” a divorce lawyer was reported to have said (in the Divorce Corp. movie) every time he drove by a wedding. Attorneys generally looked forwarded to having a larger base of clients and some expressed the opinion that judges hearing gay divorces might ultimately revisit their gender biases when handling divorces between men and women. “If they get used to the idea of awarding shared custody to two moms,” one lawyer said, “then they might start thinking that it was okay for a mom and a dad to do 50\/50 shared parenting.”<\/p>\n

What do they make of the public fight over gay marriage? “What would surprise people from 100 years ago the most is not that two people of the same sex wanted to live within a framework of laws that were designed for two people of the opposite sex,” said one attorney. “What I think would surprise them is how the benefits of civil marriage cited by gay marriage advocates have nothing to do with marriage per se<\/i>. The public discussion is about potential tax or Social Security benefits from being married or that it isn’t necessary to execute a health care proxy to get control over an unconscious person’s health care. But nobody talks about what used to be considered the main benefit of a civil marriage, i.e., that you had a life partner on whom you could rely.”<\/p>\n

An attorney who’d been practicing for nearly 40 years said “Today’s civil marriage is a shadow of its former self. In the old days, if your partner was having an affair you could have him or her arrested on charges of adultery. If your partner decided to repudiate his or her marriage vows, the state would assist you in trying to enforce those vows. He or she could negotiate with you to end the marriage but there was no equivalent to no-fault divorce in which your partner could sue you and be guaranteed of winning the lawsuit. Gays and straights today are fighting over the scraps of marriage.”<\/p>\n

What about the moral and philosophical dispute regarding gay marriage? “When I read arguments by opponents of gay marriage,” said one attorney, “I don’t recognize their description of straight marriage as some sort of sanctified institution. With no-fault statutes that kept the old alimony, property division, and child support rules, straight people made a mockery of civil marriage a long time ago. Marriage today is a way for a smart person with a low income to make money from a stupid person with a high income. What difference does it make whether the gold digger and mark are of the same sex?”<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Friends have been asking me what our forthcoming book has to say about gay marriage, now that the U.S. Supreme Court may force all states to provide and […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6767","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nSupreme Court hears the gay marriage question - Philip Greenspun\u2019s Weblog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/2015\/01\/23\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Supreme Court hears the gay marriage question - Philip Greenspun\u2019s Weblog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Friends have been asking me what our forthcoming book has to say about gay marriage, now that the U.S. Supreme Court may force all states to provide and […]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/philip.greenspun.com\/blog\/2015\/01\/23\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Philip Greenspun\u2019s Weblog\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-01-23T16:44:47+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"philg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"philg\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\\\/\\\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"Article\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/#article\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/\"},\"author\":{\"name\":\"philg\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/448e4e6a0ae9105741a06dcf62cee50e\"},\"headline\":\"Supreme Court hears the gay marriage question\",\"datePublished\":\"2015-01-23T16:44:47+00:00\",\"mainEntityOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/\"},\"wordCount\":772,\"commentCount\":7,\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/#\\\/schema\\\/person\\\/448e4e6a0ae9105741a06dcf62cee50e\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"CommentAction\",\"name\":\"Comment\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/#respond\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/\",\"name\":\"Supreme Court hears the gay marriage question - Philip Greenspun\u2019s Weblog\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2015-01-23T16:44:47+00:00\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/2015\\\/01\\\/23\\\/supreme-court-hears-the-gay-marriage-question\\\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Supreme Court hears the gay marriage question\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\\\/\\\/philip.greenspun.com\\\/blog\\\/\",\"name\":\"Philip Greenspun\u2019s Weblog\",\"description\":\"A posting every day; 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