Toyota Sienna Minivan
"because my Dodge Grand Caravan fell apart"by Philip Greenspun, updated September 2004
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Toyota Sienna Minivan"because my Dodge Grand Caravan fell apart"by Philip Greenspun, updated September 2004 |
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Why a minivan? Once you buy one, you can never go back to a plain old
car. There is a luxury to always having enough space to carry your
friends, your photo gear, your dog, and your bike. All at the same time.
I joined the minivan club in 1993 when I bought a Dodge Grand Caravan to drive to Alaska and back. I loved the design of the car and the capabilities afforded by having so much space. The handling was, uh, sort of car-like. The dealers were horrible, a problem compounded by the fact that Chrysler's execution of the great design was shoddy.
When we were kids growing up in Washington, D.C., we had a 1970 Chevy
station wagon. It was dark green on the outside ("to match the hedges"
-- Mom) and black vinyl on the inside. We had no air conditioning. We
lived in Washington, D.C.. While riding around inside this
inferno, you were either looking at black vinyl upholstery or shiny
green-painted metal. The interior of the car, where not upholstered, was
exactly like the exterior. I don't remember thinking it was especially
ugly and it certainly did not rattle.
Sometime in the 1980s car manufacturers decided that no American should be forced to look at sheet metal while sitting inside an automobile. So they molded car-sized pieces of plastic and stuck them to the metal on the insides of the car. This reduced interior volume by about half an inch all around but otherwise didn't seem to make much difference.
Think about a minivan that is four years old, though, and has 55,000
miles on it. It has been subject to cold winters in Boston and hot
summers in Los Alamos, New Mexico. Essentially
a big empty box, it has very little torsional rigidity. So all of the
plastic on the interior is subjected to twisting forces as the car
pounds over potholes. Meanwhile it is being alternately heated up or
frozen.
The result? All of the plastic pieces in the interior of my Caravan were cracked and rattling. It was sufficiently annoying that I decided to run a Web contest to give the Caravan away to charity. I then started to feel guilty about giving the folks at the no-kill animal shelter my rattling car. It was still under warranty and basically sound mechanically, but I didn't want them to realize that I was only giving them the car because it got on my nerves.
I went to a local dealer and said "stick all the plastic pieces back to the metal and order some new ones if you have to; keep doing it until the car stops rattling." It cost me about $1300.
They tried to sell me a new 1998 Grand Caravan but I found the legroom was even tighter than in my 1993 (Chrysler redesigned their minivans for the 1996 model year). I'm only 6' tall and it seems ridiculous to feel cramped driving alone in a 7-passenger car, but there you have it.
Car and Driver rated minivans and came up with the following hierarchy: GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Ford. One thing I don't like about car magazines is that they rate new cars. After three years, my Chrysler felt like it was falling apart. That wasn't going to be reflected in a magazine rating.
I settled on the Sienna for the following reasons:
Having given my old car away on the Internet, I bought my new car on the Internet as well. I purchased the car in March 1998 from Clair Toyota (www.clair.com; this is a reasonable dealership but I think Toyota of Watertown has been better for service and seems to have lower prices for sales). The total cost was $27,000, including taxes. I did not visit the dealership until the evening that I picked up my car. I just got a bank check from BankBoston and hopped on the T and Steve picked me up. I spent about 45 minutes at Clair with "the finance guy" (Chris) who had trouble reprinting a Registry form. Then I drove away in the Sienna. It was kind of a waste of three hours (round-trip) and I hope that next time I'll be able to get a car on the Internet and have it delivered.
The Sienna handles like the modern Camry on which it is based. It is
more nimble than my old Caravan. I hesitate to say "fun to drive" about
a minivan and the car is certainly no Acura NSX.
However, I admit to having enjoyed myself on the road more than once.
The front seats are fine for 20-minute trips but provide little lumbar support and become uncomfortable on long highway journeys.
The car isn't quite as roomy as my old Caravan, into which I used to easily stuff four mountain bikes, four people, and one Samoyed. I ended up getting Genuine Toyota Accessory Bike Racks for the roof. They were more than twice the cost of racks from Performance Bike, they don't really open wide enough for many aluminum bike frames, they don't have wide enough channels for mountain bike tires, and they came with missing parts. Other than that, I like 'em.
I don't think the cupholders, at the base of the front bucket seats, are as good as the dash-mounted cupholders on the Chrysler minivans. For one thing, if the car is full of friends my dog likes to park himself between the seats, rendering the cupholders useless.
Certainly I would not pay a premium price for a Sienna but the latest 2004 models have some unique features, e.g., openable 2nd-seat windows, that may make it worth considering. (See the 2004 Sienna review section below.)
As far as rattling goes, the Sienna has actually been much worse than the 1993 Dodge Caravan. The dome light rattles, just a few inches from the driver's ear. On a smooth Interstate, this is a persistent buzzing that becomes really irritating after 1 hour. Driving over a bump of any size produces a prodigious rattle from the dashboard. Objectively you never have any doubt that the car is going to start in the morning, but subjectively it feels like the whole minivan has fallen apart. Clair Toyota tried twice to screw the car back together so that it would stop rattling but failed. I'm still quite happy with Clair, by the way, and think that they are probably about as good as one can expect from a dealer.
Just before the warranty expired, I wrote a letter to Toyota complaining about the unrepairable rattles. Toyota Customer Assistance left a message on my answering machine in response to the letter. I called back and waited on hold for 10 minutes. A fellow named Jacob Stein picked up and asked for the case file number. He put me on hold for a minute and then came back to ask what was wrong with the car and what I wanted done. I responded "Did you read the letter?" Mr. Stein said that someone had read the letter but it wasn't him and he did not have a copy in front of him. Between the time I wrote the letter and the time of my conversation the warranty had lapsed. Ergo, Toyota would do nothing to repair the car. End of conversation: "Have a nice day."
[Could have been a lot worse. I have only one friend with a Sienna. At 14,000 miles the automatic transmission suffered a complete failure and left him stranded until his mom came and picked him up. Took the Los Angeles-area dealer a week to get a replacement transmission and install it.]
One sliding door traps passengers inside as the child lock always turns on by itself. The other sliding door won't stay latched open. The driver's door lock mechanism failed and the vehicle cannot be opened with a key in the driver's door, though it can still be opened with the alarm remote control. The alarm beeper failed and the replacement Toyota-brand CD player failed.
Obtaining service for these problems has proved to be painful due to the fact that dealers don't have the parts to repair the Sienna. You need to have a lot of free time to get a Toyota (or perhaps any other car these days?) fixed. You must budget one day for a repair attempt in which parts required will be diagnosed, a week or two for the ordered parts to arrive, then another day to take the car back to the dealer.
We do seem to live in a throwaway society.
I decided to give Toyota of Watertown a try, telling them that the front struts might need to be replaced. Derek, one of the mechanics in Watertown, determined that the struts were fine but the strut mounts needed replacement. End of the clunking noise that had plagued the car for years. Sadly they weren't able to replace the CD player. Toyota has stopped stocking the part. The front brakes were replaced. Total cost: $1600.
The rest of the car is holding up well, with the only problems being a
seat belt light that illuminates when it should not, the
self-child-locking sliding side door, and the incurable rattles.
The new 2004 Sienna
Based on a test-drive and a close inspection of the redesigned 2004
Sienna's marketing literature, here's a review of the newest Toyota
minivan.
First, ask yourself why you're reading a review of any minivan. For most people the different brands of minivans are virtually indistinguishable. They all hold a lot of people. None handle as well as a Honda Accord sedan. All minivans are reasonably quiet inside, very safe in accidents, and reasonably fuel efficient (at least compared to SUVs). Due to the fact that Americans seemingly can't bear to be seen in anything smaller and more fuel efficient than a Hummer, minivans all have terrible resale value. Service and support for older vehicles in the United States is not very good. Putting these facts together the reasonable conclusion would seem to be "buy whatever minivan is cheapest so that you can afford to buy a new one every 4 or 5 years." I.e., you don't need to take test drives you only need to build a price comparison chart at cars.yahoo.com.
If for some reason you have an unusual application or are otherwise a car nerd, read on...
The 2004 Sienna is larger than the older Siennas and is now more or less the same size as the Chrysler long wheelbase minivans. Four-wheel drive is a $3,500 option, for those who need to drive in the snow. The interior feels spacious and the handling is competitive within the minivan group though the massive weight (around 4400 lbs.) and high center of gravity means that you won't mistake a Sienna for a sports car.
One feature that the Sienna pioneered is 2nd-seat windows that roll down (Honda, Hyundai, and Mazda have these too). One thing that would be fun to do with these is staple a stainless steel or kevlar mesh to the interior window frame. Then you could perhaps leave a dog in the car on a day with moderate temperatures: roll the windows all the way down, relying on the steel mesh to keep the dog in and strangers out, hanging a 12V fan on the mesh for added cross ventilation.
Nice features of the Sienna compared to other minivans:
Apparently we've concluded that the Sienna is a good vehicle for people with infinite money and tremendous self-confidence (minivans don't add much to one's personal style) who aren't interested in modern telematics systems such as OnStar.
My Sienna is 9 months old now. Pretty good except for the brakes, which I knew going in. The brakes glazed and got noisy at 5k, and the dealer replaced the pads. Supposedly a retro to TRD brakes coming. More noises at 12k, the retro doesn't cover my VIN. We'll keep working on that. The van has been good, but hate the cupholders too. The dog, moving the seat, just about anything spills things.
-- Kirk Eppler, January 14, 1999
We bought our Toyota Sienna Van in July 1998 and have had problems with the locks on both of the sliding doors and the driver's side door. It is not due to child proof locks; the button you push to open the doors stays pushed in, does not pop back out and the doors cannot be opened from the inside or the outside. This is quite dangerous when you have four children who all sit in the back. They have had to climb over the seats to get out. The driver's door will not lock unless you use your key. The dealer has been no help. Has anyone else experienced this problem?
-- Heather Dew, September 6, 1999
We havw a 1999 Toyota Sienna. At 25,000 miles the engine failed due to sludge. Toyota has failed to back their warranty in one of the most horrendous displays of customer service I have ever seen. We are currently in arbitration to have them give us our money back. I would not reccommend that anyone buy a Toyota product. There are problems with their engine warning system designs and they do not back their products. With only a brief search I have found two other siennas that have the same exact problem. Below is our story if you are interested. Please let me know if your toyota has had a similar problem.Complaint Station for Toyota 1999 Sienna Engine Fails Due to Sludge. Toyota Won't Honor Warranty. From: Steve Weiss Emailid: weiss10@prodigy.net This letter is in regards to our 1999 Toyota Sienna. This will also summarize a basic chronology. We are requesting any assistance you can give to help Toyota bring a rapid resolution to our case.
December 4, 1998: The vehicle was purchased new.
February 8, 1999: Oil and filter change. May 15, 1999: Texaco Express Lube oil and filter change. November 10, 1999: American Lube Fast oil filter change. April 24, 2000: Tire and Lube Express oil and filter change.
During the first week of May I noticed white smoke coming from the exhaust during cold start-ups. I then called Toyota Service Dept. and made an appointment for May 11 @ 2:45.
On May 11, 2000, my wife called Toyota to see how long the repair would take. They explained that it was faulty valve stem seals that were leaking onto the exhaust and the repair would take an entire day to complete. Due to illness in our family we could not leave it for an entire day. We then explained that we were leaving to go to Florida on May 13, and we would need to get the vehicle repaired prior to that time or drive a different vehicle. They said that the vehicle would be safe to drive to Florida and back and upon our return we should bring in it for service. He made no other recommendations as to any special instructions on vehicle operation. We then asked him twice if he was positive that the car was safe to drive on such a long trip. They confirmed that it would be fine.
On May 13, 2000, prior to leaving on vacation, all the fluids were checked and full. As a side note, the vehicle had only burned ½ quart of oil total in the previous 12 months. The car was driven to Florida and had approximately 20 hours of engine run time prior to leaving Sarasota.
On May 21, 2000, prior to leaving Sarasota, Florida to drive to Atlanta I checked the fluid levels for the return trip and found the oil to be 4 ½ quarts low. I purchased oil and put it in the engine. At no time while this car was 4 ½ quarts low on oil were there any warnings or indications that there was a problem. There was no oil warning light, no engine warning light and the vehicles temperature gauge was in the normal mid-range as it always is. We then started to drive and after one hour of driving then checked the oil and found it to be ½ quart low. We drove to Jacksonville, Fl which is another 2 hours and found that it had burned an additional 1 ½ quarts of oil. We stopped in Jacksonville overnight, because it was obvious to me that whatever the problem was, was now getting worse and needed to be looked at prior to continuing.
On May 22, 2000, at 7:30 AM I brought the vehicle into a Toyota service department. I spoke with the service Rep and he said that the engine was full of sludge and did not have proper oil changes done which caused the sludge. He also went on to say that Toyota would not honor the vehicles warranty because it did not cover sludge in the engine. I was later informed that the oil pump was also full of sludge and that the engine would need to be replaced. I then spoke with the service manager who explained that once sludge is found in an engine, Toyota automatically assumes customer liability and voids that warranty. He then said it was out of his hands and Toyota Corporate would have to make a determination. At no time did anyone in the service dept. or customer service do anything to try to locate the cause of the problem with the vehicle. For example, another service rep said that the valve stem seals were leaking, or that the vehicles warning system was not functioning properly. There also could have been contamination in the oil. It was only assumed, as stated to me, that improper oil changes are the only cause of sludge and that it was my problem.
I was directed to have Toyota take a sludge free oil sample to be sent into Oil Analyzers Inc., an oil-testing laboratory, to be analyzed to help determine the cause of the sludge and the condition of the oil in the vehicle. Later that day I called Toyota Corporate Customer Service and spoke with Ernest Henderson to register a complaint that Toyota was not honoring their warranty. Mr. Henderson called to have an Area Rep come out to inspect the vehicle.
On May 26, 2000, the Area Rep inspected the vehicle and denied warranty coverage for improper oil changes. I then called the General Manager to register my complaint with Toyota. He then spoke with the Area Rep who said that a final determination would be made on Tuesday, May 30, 2000.
Documentation for the oil servicing was sent to the Toyota Service Manager, prior to the Area Rep’s inspection. I have since spoken with numerous mechanics and oil specialists who have clarified that improper oil changes are not the only cause of sludge in an engine.
This leads me into an explanation of the probable causes of how sludge exists in this engine and why Toyota should honor their warranty and repair this vehicle to factory specifications. A service rep stated to me that the problem with the vehicle was leaky valve stem seals. Leaky valve stem seals allow oil to seep into the piston chambers and burn out of the exhaust as white smoke. As this problem gets worse, more and more oil continues to seep out of the engine. He was wrong in his assessment that the vehicle would be safe to drive. Further erosion of the valve stem seals eventually caused the engine to sludge.
There were no indications or warnings that there was any problem with the engine. The warning system of this vehicle provided absolutely no warning whatsoever prior to the engine becoming sludged to the extent that it needed to be replaced.
During the period of May 27 through May 30, 2000, I made numerous phone calls and sent email complaint letters.
On May 30, 2000, I received the results of the oil analysis from Oil Analyzers Inc. I then spoke with the laboratory technicians to review the results of the oil sample analysis. It was explained to me that the oil that was in the engine was contaminated with water. The Toyota service rep also commented on the viscosity of the oil sample when they took it from the vehicle and how it looked like water. In fact, according to the analysis there was .23% water contaminating the oil. This is 1 ½ times the tolerances limit for water contamination. The oil that I put into the vehicle in Sarasota was 10W-30 and has a viscosity of 9.7 centistokes. When this oil was tested after only 3 hours of engine run time, the viscosity measured 16.2. This is an increase of over 6 centistokes and indicates that the oil was already starting to sludge due to the water contamination.
The oil degradation present in this oil sample was 40% oxidation and 35.7% nitration. These numbers indicate that this oil used up ½ of its cooling capability. This degradation in the oil’s cooling capability causes the engine and oil to get hot. Water enters the crankcase through the process of condensation when the engine is cooling. Higher engine and oil temperatures from the oil degradation caused more water contamination to enter the engine through this process of condensation
According to Oil Analyzers Inc., the spectrographic analysis of the oil shows that the sludge was not caused by bad oil, as the values tested in the normal range. However, the physical properties of this oil being percentage of water contamination and viscosity, as well as the oil degradation in oxidation and nitration, “Indicates that something is tremendously wrong with the way this engine is operating”. He also went on to say that a failed PCV valve could also cause a viscosity increase leading to sludge.
On June 2, 2000, I received the following statement from Southeast Toyota Customer Loyalty Department. “We are responding to your request for an explanation of the denial of coverage for warranty repairs on your vehicle. The Toyota New Vehicle Limited Warranty provides coverage to correct defects in materials or workmanship for covered components. The failure of the engine in your vehicle was caused by sludge. It has been determined that the failure to the engine in your vehicle was not the result of a defect in the materials or workmanship”.
We believe that the problems with this engine are a direct result of defects in the materials, workmanship, and design of the Sienna’s engine. We are absolutely amazed that the warning system of our vehicle did not even provide the slightest indication that we had a catastrophic problem with our engine.
Our case is currently in Arbitration with the National Center for Dispute Settlements.
-- Steve Weiss, June 16, 2000
I have a '99 Toyota Sienna, 30,000 miles now, I have had the door lock problem; the sliding door locks get stuck in, the sliding doors constantly get stuck (I am told by the dealer that this is due to spillage, however this is just a ploy...); I have complained NUMEROUS times about vibration and pulling to the right,Toyota has replaced the brake drums under warranty, this did not help the vibration; they sited defective tires, I now have the third set of tires on this van; I still have the vibration. The dealers and the Southeast Toyota regional office has been no help with this as a matter of fact they are very defensive about it. I now have paperwork to send to the National Center for dispute settlement. I cannot believe that Toyota will not stand by their advertised "Customer Satisfacion" advertisement. I need all the documentation I can find to take to this arbitration. Please e-mail any and all complaints that you may have to JColeman@vieler.com. I want this van recalled and the problems repaired. Don't you?
-- Judy Coleman, August 13, 2000
I leased a 2000 Sienna, and had no problems the first 18000 miles. At about 19000 miles, after three oil changes during this time, I began to blow smoke out of the tail pipe. Took it into Toyota dealership, and was told I have "sludge", as a result of a lack of maintanance. I explained my three oil changes, with receipts for two (I changed it once), and was told "the receipts mean nothing to me". Called 800 number in California, they supported their dealer. Was told I will have to pay at least $2500 to have my engine rebuilt. Is this a problem with the design of the engine, or the mileage suggested by Toyota (every 7500 miles based on my driving)between oil changes. I do not like being called a liar by Toyota, and expect them to back their warranty. Am planning on contacting television reporter who does investigations into this type of stuff (to keep it clean). If interested in having your name on the list of people for him to contact, please contact me at my email address.
-- Barry Drizin, March 24, 2001
Engine Sludge problem - I am facing $3,300 in repairs on my 2000 Toyota Sienna XLE van with only 17,000 miles and oil changes performed at 7,000, 10,000, and 16,000 miles. Told that it has engine sludge build up that can only be due to improper maintenance and owner neglect, that it could not have happened if oil changes occured when I indicated, and suggested that I contact the independent companies that changed my oil (implying that they really did not do an oil change). Charges are not covered under warranty. Even after repairs are complete, they may elect to not continue warranty on the engine of the vehicle. I bought a Toyota because of their record of reliability and customer service, and have found this to be a complete fallacy.
-- JJ Jackson, May 30, 2001
The Sludge Factor
We have a 1998 Toyota Sienna XLE with about 50,000 miles on it. It is our fifth Toyota. Between 1983 and 2000, all motor vehicles we purchased were Toyota products. We have an extended warranty. And an unresolved SLUDGE problem - something that has never occurred on any of the vehicles I have owned in the past forty (40!) years. It is comforting to discover that we are not alone, and that some of you sludge veterans made suggestions as to where to turn. Because we are not about to pay the $3,000 Toyota estimates it will take to dismantle and repair the engine, we are now renting a car in hopes of a resolution. Here is our saga so far:
My wife heard loud valve clatter on the morning of May 24, 2001, and we immediately drove the vehicle to Lou Fusz Toyota, in Kirkwood, a suburb of St. Louis, MO. Mike Wolz, Assistant Service Manager, called next morning to verify that there was a problem. He found sludge in the tubing that constricted oil flow to the valves. Mike said it would be OK to drive it, although best not on a long trip. On advice of my wife's brother, a mechanic, we decided not to drive it at all.
On Tuesday May 29, I had Dobbs Auto Service, which had done most of our oil changes, print out a detailed list of service performed on the vehicle. I gave the list to Mr. Wolz, together with a table we drew up, based on receipts in our possession. These indicated that on average we had oil changes every 4 months, at approximately 4,000 mile intervals. Mr. Wolz told us that Charley Epp, regional service manager for the Kansas City region (which includes St. Louis) would be in town May 31, and that he would inspect the car and make a determination. On May 31 Mr. Wolz informed us that Mr. Epp had looked at the engine that day and determined that, because there was sludge, the vehicle must not have had frequent enough oil changes. He was shown the record of our oil changes, but nevertheless determined that Toyota had no responsibility in the matter.
I then asked to speak to Mr. Epp, but was told that he had already left the premises. I spoke to the Customer Relations Manager at Fusz Toyota, Mr. Tom Coats, who said there was nothing he could do in the matter. I asked him what the next step would be for a complaint, and he said I could request an "arbitration package" from the national customer service office, at 800-331-4331.
I phoned that number and spoke to Bob Squibb, a customer service representative. He said that normally he advised taking three steps before resorting to arbitration, but that evidently I had taken all three already. (These included speaking to customer relations at the dealer and having a regional representative come out to inspect the vehicle.) He initiated an application for an arbitration package to be sent to me within 2 weeks. He told me that Toyota will settle the claim within 40 days of receipt of the completed forms.
Sweet of them. I hope we can do better. I will look carefully at what has been written on the topic in this forum, but any further advice would be greatly welcome.
-- Robert Gordon, June 2, 2001
Sludge Problem here too! I can't believe this! My 2000 Sienna XLE is only 18 months old and only has 14,000 miles on it!! and I just discovered the sludge in my engine at my latest regular maintenance oil change at Pro Care in Middletown, Ohio. I have an appointment with the closest Toyota dealer (45 minute one way drive!) on Monday to "inspect my car" and "determine the course of action" but they have already accused me of neglect and informed me that my Warranty is now void despite having proof of oil changes!I wish I had a Toyota dealership in my town that I could have conveniently gone to for Oil changes - I wonder if they would accuse their own staff of not *really* changing the oil!!
As soon as I began to describe my problem to the dealership service person, I was instantly accused of wrongdoing and commanded to call a National 800#. I was assigned an investigative case# by the national folks and instructed to call the dealer again and give the case# in order to obtain an appointment for the INSPECTION. They definitely KNOW there is a problem and they have already been trained on how to treat the poor customers!
I am so shocked because I thought Toyota was famous for it's great customer service, it was one of the reasons I bought a Sienna (We have a 98 Camry which has never had any problems at all!) I can't believe that anyone would think that this is the right way to treat customers who spent a lot of money on what they thought was a really nice Van and have done nothing wrong! Shame on you Toyota. I am going to join in the fight and hope that some agency somewhere can force Toyota to stand by their warranty and do the right thing. Thank Goodness my local mechanic had heard about the sludge that has been turning up in Siennas and that Toyota was not standing behind their warranty and he was able to warn me to watch out or I would never have thought to go online and search for information on it. Megan Trent (megtrent@one.net)
-- Megan Trent, June 20, 2001
I own a 1998 Sienna. I guess the good news is that this is a "pre-sludge" era Toyota - but the sliding door button jamming is a serious safety problem and a major pain in the backside. It used to happen only once a month or so - now every day. These buttons get stuck in - if it happens when the door is open, it often cannot be closed! (which means you cannot go anywhere for the 5-20 minutes it takes for this button to pop out on its own). If it happens when the door is closed, it cannot be opened from the inside or outside, meaning passengers have to climb up and over to get out! I love the head and legroom; but I have a terrible rattle in the right sliding door, the rear seat belts lock up easily on anyone bigger than a small women, and I had to replace my tires at 30K miles due to mis-alignment wear. I'm terribly disappointed in Toyota.
-- Barb Karlin, June 20, 2001
I too have had problems such as the sliding door button stuck inside, air leak on the driver side, etc. with our 1998 Sienna minivan. The Toyota service people/dealers happen to be quite rude and un- professional and look for ways of either blaming the customer or denying that the problem exists. (Any SOLUTION for the sliding door button?)Once the warranty period on my Sienna expired, the Toyota people had no problem in acknowledging (or diagnosing) the very problems they had denied earlier, but this time asking for money to correct them. Very cheap and unprofessional.
We purchased a 2000 Honda CR/V last year and have so far (after 26,000 miles) been happy with the quality of product and service (the only service we needed has been regular oil change vs many trips to the Toyota dealer for defect/problems with our Sienna).
-- H Saiedian, July 11, 2001
Whew! This is unbelievable. I have a 1999 Sienna with the sludge problem and I thought I was the only one having to deal with this mess. Thanks to google I found you all. I just got diagnosed on Friday at Seeger Toyota here in St. Louis. I filed a complaint with Toyota. My assigned ID is 2001090500009. Of course I was told it was my fault so I have been running around trying to get my oil change receipts in order from Dobbs and Jiffy Lube. Like an idiot, I thought if I just show them the facts they will fix my problem under warrenty. I am not sure how to proceed exactly at this point but I will go as far as I can in arbitration and make those government phone calls.By the way, I too had the driver side passenger sticky door problem and they told me it was my fault as well.
So much for Toyota quality.
-- Stephen Mandel, September 5, 2001
Purchased our 1998 Toyota Sienna in 1998 after giving up on a $4000 discount on a Chrysler where my sister -in - law works. Fo rthe last year or so the ABS light and the tire sensor seems to stay on all the time. I was told by the Toyata Service shop that I need to replace the ABS system which is sticking. price @ $2000! No way. Let me know if you have a smilar issue!
-- John Brown, September 5, 2001
I have a 1999 Toyota Sienna XLE that has had chronic problems with the automatic sliding door. When the door is open, it will not close when the automatic door button is pushed. Instead, it makes a clicking sound and barely moves. Sometimes when it does close, it does not latch, so the car thinks the door is open and will not drive. The dealer claims it's my fault -- says I must have yanked on it, but the only way I've ever operated the door is by the button. The dealer says Toyota won't cover it under the warranty anymore. Has anyone else had problems with an automatic sliding door? The manual sliding door is difficult to open despite the dealer's attempts to repair it. Something squeaks and rattles in the dashboard.
-- Sara Spero, September 30, 2001
I would like to add my own sludge problems to this site! I had to have my engine rebuilt as well at 42000 miles on March 21, 2001. What prompted me to check it was the oil light was going on and off. When i checked the oil level, it was pretty close to empty. When I checked under the cap, the sludge was built up quite a bit. I had changes at an average of every 6000 miles. The last oil change before the engine was rebuilt was around 10000 miles. Since the rebuild, i changed it after 4000 miles and 6000 miles and the buildup is starting again. I have not taken any action in arbitration at this point, but after I see it is happening a gain I decided to research a little and now I see this is a popular problem...and VERY costly! What can I do to join in on getting this settled at this point?Regards:
Greg Friedman
-- Greg Friedman, October 19, 2001
Add me to the list of sludged Sienna owners. The purchase of this vehicle was, by far, the biggest investment my family has made and is also the only new vehicle we have ever purchased. With our previous vehicles, I had fallen into the habit of changing the motor oil every 3,000. I had intended to do the same with our new baby. But behold the manufacture's manual which stated that our driving conditions merited an oil change every 7,500 miles. Wow!!! I'm thinking that these Toyota with their well respected reputation and superior engineering are so well-built that oil changes are unnecessary until 7,500 miles. It made perfect sense to us. That's why we are paying a premium to drive such a superb vehicle. Boy, we were in for a shock.At about 28k miles a little light blue smoke starting coming out of the tailpipe. This occurred just as the weather was starting to turn cool. Of course I'm thinking its because of the cool weather. It only worsened. As you might have surmised, I am now facing an estimated $4000 to have the engine de-sludged. Toyota has performed three of my oil changes, and I performed one myself. After I was told about the sludge and that it was my fault because I neglected to properly maintain my vehicle I was overcome with guilt. I began to think that maybe Toyota's are great vehicle so long as you change the oil every 3k miles like clockwork. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OWNER'S MANUAL. I didn't have a chance because I was following it. If you can't trust the group the builds the vehicles, who can you trust. Now I feel duped.
Luckily, I have discovered that I am not alone. Tomorrow I will begin contacting some of the agencies I have heard about. Saturday, I am going to talk with someone in Toyota's public relations department about my vehicle. I want to be counted among the others who are having problems with their Siennas.
We loved our Sienna. It pains me to wake up every morning and see it sitting out front collecting dust. We have not driven it since we returned from the service department. Actually, it was cheaper in the short term to go out and purchase a used vehicle that we now using while we try to figure out what we are going to do. Honestly, if we had the money, we would have paid on the spot to have the vehicle de-sludged and I would have never known that I am not alone.
-JM
-- Jim Minolta, November 23, 2001
My story: bought a new '98 Sienna in 12/97 (5 months after I bought a new T100... I really was/am a Toyota fan!). My wife put 16K miles on it the first year, and then only about 6K each of the next two years because she decided to stop working after our second child was born. Last December, with about 28K miles, there were a few things bothering us so we brought it in before the warranty ran out. You know, the usual as many have noted above: the doors rattling (they couldn't find anything), the sliding door not operating correctly (they replaced a cable), the dash rattling (they didn't even try on that one), and a puff of white-ish smoke about 30% of the time upon startup. I also had them do the 30K mile service to the tune of a few hundred dollars. They did the service, replace the cable, and were ready to hand it back to me. I asked them about the puff of smoke and they said they did not observe it at all. I asked them to persue it. They called me a day later and asked if I was sitting down. They continued to tell me it was all my fault and they would not cover it under warranty, and they even called the regional service person and she agreed with their diagnosis. It would cost me something like $6000 to replace the entire engine. I negotiated them down to about $4000 and then told them to stick it. My wife continued to drive the car another year (5K miles up to about 33K now) until we traded it in. It was still very quiet, although it was noticeaby losing power and the puff of smoke was about 75% of the time now.Ok, so we have some doubters of this sludge problem who like to stand on some sort of holy ground since they have not had the problem (yet!). Then, and we have a bunch of people with the problem that have somehow all managed to find this site and felt compelled to provide their story. Honestly, if I was on the other side of the fence, I would say it was a maintenance problem as well...I just know better. I have had cars and put over 150K miles with zero problems at all (other than a water pump) and have always maintained them myself. I have never been to a Jiffy Lube in my life and don't intend to start now because of this! I have never had any kind of engine failure at all, no BS. I have always attributed this success to my maintenance of the vehicle. Then this Sienna comes along and they tell me I didn't maintain it properly. Holy Cow! The bottom line is there are way too many people complaining about the same thing for it not to be a problem. I sent a message to another site about this URL, so will copy it here, too.
www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/complain/
I typed in Honda Accord and Ford Taurus yesterday (because there are alot of them around and I wanted a large sample) and found only one or two complaints in each of sludge. Then I go to any 1998-2000 Toyota model that is available with this same 3.0 liter engine (yes, they are all the same...Lexus ES/GS/RX300 too) and you will see many many of the same complaint. The complaints are somewhat consistent with the number of vehicles sold and sold with the V6, meaning you see more Avalon's with the complaint because all Avalon's have the engine, whereas Camry's are a little less because they have alot of 4 cylinder cars out there, etc... I am into statistics, and again, there are way too many for this NOT to be a real problem. Look at this site and tabulate the data and you'll see one of two things is true: 1. People who don't maintain their vehicles well prefer to buy Toyotas with V6 engines, or 2. There is a problem.
So what the heck are we going to do about this?
I don't believe it has anythin to do with not changing the oil. I believe as others have stated or implied that it has to do with driving habits (ie: short trips). If this is the case, it is not th owner's fault...I have a 1971 F350 that doesn't have this problem with 108K miles...that's like 3.6K miles per year on average. So I have to tell my wife not to drive the kids three blocks to school in the morning unless she is prepared to do "The Nap Route" (you know, the 7 mile route you take the 3 year old on as a last ditch effort to get her to take an early afternoon nap)? That's ridiculous.
BTW: I traded the '98 in on Friday after stewing about this for a year and trying to get my wife to buy an Odyssey. She really liked the Toyota better and since I don't drive it much I left the decision to her. Yes, we traded it in on a 2002 Sienna. I rationalized it that we got a lemon and just accepted it until my sister told me about the link I mentioned above and I poked around a bit. Now I am stewing again and I don't even have the vehicle!
As a side note: you should have seen the salesman's face when I told him the car had a bad engine, his jaw dropped, it was classic. They don't know how to handle honesty. I negotiated them down to $3500 deduction off the '98 for the engine.
I am tired of typing now and my daughter just got up so I am going to sit with her for a few minutes. Feel free to reply to me. I will be trying to contact some others on this site, too.
BTW Philip: thanks for providing this site for us to rant and rave on...beautiful dog. Our Samoyed (Sasha) died about 2 years ago at about 12 years old. We still miss her and haven't been able to get over it enough to get another yet.
-- Bill Higdon, January 1, 2002
White smoke and sludge @26,000 miles.I use Mobil 1 synthetic oil and filters,and change AT LEAST every 6000 miles.This is a 2000 Sienna. I could understand the sludge if it were my dad's corolla and had 275,000 miles.Heck,he's gone 30,000 miles between his last 3 oil changes and can't believe what I'm going through. I don't care if I put 100 yards a day on the odometer.Short,long,hard trips,who cares? 26,000 miles and the engine is worse for wear than a 30 year-old corolla with 10 times the miles? Anyone with this model year Sienna who hasn't had the problem yet? Have patience,because your turn is coming.I'm very maintenance intensive,and refuse to let anyone else touch my vehicles,so I could care less about Toyota's b.s. warranty. But,ANYTHING that gets this kind of SLUDGE in less than two years is one MAJOR piece of JUNK!!!!!
-- Perry Addison, January 18, 2002
We have always had very little problems with any of the Toyota's that we have purchased. But when we purchased a 1998 Sienna van with all of the options, we did not experience the "Oh what a feeling" quality. At about 32,000 miles the dealership informed us we needed new brakes and rotors (The Rotors were badly rusted) which did not seem right, we paid to have it fixed and continued driving our van. At about 50,000 miles are van started with a blue smoke. The blue smoke exhaust continued to get worse to the point where every time we accelerated we would leave blue smoke trail. The first time we asked our dealership about the problem they informed me that I had not maintained the vehicle correctly and needed to change the oil in a more regimented fashion. We proceeded to follow their recommendations. Several months later and three oil changes the issue remained. We even tried Motor flush before changing the oil. Then we got a Service bulletin from Toyota about the Siena engine. We contacted the Dealership about the problem again and notified them that we received a service bulletin about the oil sludge problem. The dealership repaired the problem under warranty along with the Catalytic Convertor which had lost the protection cover for $4800.00. Great news for us.
-- Ken Kirsch, February 16, 2005
My 2004 Sienna front brake pad failure at 14K too Toyota/Scion of Glendora replace the brake for free, Now at 23K need new brakes new tired I know there is something wrong with the front brakes I am looking for people has the same problem for make a big complaint.
-- Rosa Hernandez, February 17, 2005
I have the 2004 Sienna and have had one problem right after another. The radiator ruptured/engine over heated, there was a recall on a hose in the steering column, the Dvd screen was replaced and then the entire DVD player was replaced(Took them 2x to get it installed correctly), the front seat belt was replaced, now the middle belt is failing, the driver's window broke and fell into the door in a snow storm(took them a week to order another and they told me that not being able to lock the vehicle did not qualify me for a loaner car because it wasn't considered a safety issue), the cruise control is not working, the cd player won't tell me which track is playing, the driver's door seal has holes, and a fuel mixture sensor is being ordered to get the check engine light to go off. I don't think I should know the service staff this well with an eighteen month old toyota. Oh yeah, and the tires were completely bald before 30,000 miles. Minor irritations are: when the Dvd turns off, the radio/cd volume just about blasts you out of the car; and the air conditioner/heat is unbelievably loud in the back half of the van on anything above low fan.
-- Kaylyn Valentine, August 12, 2005
I have a 2000 Toyota Sienne LE. It now has 64K miles on it and overall is doing well mechanically. I heard about the sludge issue shortly after I purchaed the van so I have been religiously changing my oil every 3K miles and have been lucky so far. I have also escaped the problems with the doors.Although I have not had these issues my 2000 Sienna LE is far from perfect. Shortly after purchase (Toyota Dealer in Springfield, MO that I don't recommend)I noticed oil pools in my driveway under the van. I loved over 80 miles from the dealer I purchased the van from and did not enjoy the buying process from them so I took it to the small town Toyota Dealer where I lived (St. Roberts, MO). They identified the problem and fixed it....and then fixed it again a few weeks later......and then again a few weeks later....and then I quit taking it to them. I'm a slow learner I guess. It was not losing oil to the point that it registered so we kept driving. When we were in Council Bluffs, IA to see family we took it to the Toyota Dealer there and they fixed it same day, case closed on the oil leak. Luckily all under warranty and no loss other than time and frustration.
My bigger problem with the van has been the inability to hold an alignment and premature tire wear. After the first set of tires wore through to the steel belts in less than 20K miles on the inner side I rotated tires regularly. I noticed my hands got tired when driving over an hour and finally realized I was constantly fighting a pull to the side. I kept taking it back to the dealer for alignments and they kept saying the machine says it was aligned. Everytime I had it aligned it would straighten out but would pull again within 500 miles. Long story short, after 3 dealerships I still have a van that pulls. I got one shop manager to drive the van and he said it did not pull for him. I just bought my third complete set of tires at 64K miles. The manual says use 205/70R15 or 215/65R15s so I used highly rated (by consumer reports)Michelin Pilot XGTH4 215/65R15s this time. Oh yea, and another alignment. We'll see how long these last. Since the van is paid off and is mechanically sound otherwise I tolerate buying new tires every 2 years as it is less than a new van payment for one month.
I also had to replace the radio due to skipping and my drivers side seat belt light flashes all the time. Overall, I am lucky given I have no sludge but wish I would have waited in line for the Honda.
-- Dan Fisher, August 18, 2005
I have a 2001 Sienna and would like to say that I have been very pleased with its performance. I have had some increased tire wear and the door issue but other then that it's been a great vehicle. I have put 130,000 miles on it in a little less then 4 years. I have done oil changes about every 5-6,000 miles myself but have been getting it done at the dealership twice a year since Toyota sent a letter informing me of the potential sluge problem in May of 2002. They claim that they will cover any repair and incidental expenses such as car rentals caused by engine sluge for 8 years from date of purchase regardless of mileage as long as you provide proof of a oil change witin the past year. I would like to point out that the engine in question in also used in the 1999-2001 Lexus ES300, Camry, Avalon, Lexus RX300 and Toyota Highlander, however I can find almost no sluge complaints for models other then the Sienna.
-- David Chandler, August 25, 2005
Hi all, very interesting review and comments. We have a 2000 Sienna, and have the sliding door sticking on one side, and the sliding door button sticking on the other. Aside from these minor problems we are very happy with our Sienna. I just wanted to let the person who asked, an easy way to fix the button sticking problem. We keep a small pocket knife in the van, and when the button gets stuck in, we just put the tip of the knife into the upper crack of the button and it always pops right back out. Since we discovered this and did it a few times, the button hasn't been sticking at all. Hope this helps! If you can't carry a knife, any slim object will work. We've been known to use a credit card or driver's license as well.
-- Angie Anders, January 2, 2006
We had a 1999 Toyota Sienna XLE with door problems. We took it to Burt Toyota in Denver 3 times, and Stevenson Toyota 3 times. After the 5th "fix" I refused to give them their loaner vehicle back and threatened legal action until they fixed the door. 3 days later they said the door was fixed. It certainly was and never gave us another problem.We drive a 2004 Toyota Sienna now and we sure do love it. It's not as peppy as the 1999, but it's comfortable and smooth. We had problems with the DVD screen and had it fixed twice and replaced once. Ultimately the DVD player doesn't tilt down far enough for children or short adults, so they get a dim picture. There is no real solution from Toyota.
I just replaced the front brakes at 30K miles. I've had every single darned scheduled maintenance (not cheap), recall part replaced, and oil change performed on the van. I brought it in for the 30K to be told that the front brakes were completely shot, including the rotors. The rear brakes? No visible wear whatsoever. I told them that I didn't think the rear brakes were doing their job and that it should be covered under warranty, but no luck. $500.
So I'd say we have a love/hate relationship with our Toyota. I don't think any car is going to work perfectly, so we just grin and bear it.
-- Thad Vuolo, January 11, 2006
As a shop owner for a number of years,I have seen a number of vehicles come in pertaining a number of times to this problem,(Sticky locks and buttons) So all vehicles that come in our shop ...upon maintinence scedules ... All locks and hindes are lubed accordingly... please E mail me Help is on the way...The door sticky problem . could as easy be a relative simple problem,. try and lube the button and lock assembly with a lite viscosity oil, such as Wd40, or myster oil .....Oil sludge Engine failure problem...It seems that the most common problem of this nature can be due to HIGH Temperature of the cooling system, .. this system uses a closed loop "turn fan on" beyond the boiling point of water, Remember for each pound of pressure added to the cooling system, The temp can be raised 3 degrees,. Thus temps can easily exceed 252 degrees in a short period of time, thou most coolant ranges are between 221 and 230, there is not much of a window beteen cooling system over heat, or hot fan turn on time to oil temp break down, I mean we are talking minimal temp difference...We at First Foreign auto.. See more ENGINE FAILUREs on electic fan equiped vehicles than :FAN CLUTCH VEHICLES: there is more to this subject than time allows, The best solution that we can advise from experience is to Change the oil often, DONT exceed 3ooo miles, Use Quality motor oil, and have a Good Reputable Repair shop that you trust service for prize posession, .... Sincerly... Charles Giuffrida, C/O FIRST FOREIGN AUTO. 26 MASS AVE ARLINGTON MASS 02474, 781-646-6660 E mail... CGFFA53@MSN.COM
-- Charles Giuffrida, January 25, 2006
I have a 2004 Sienna AWD that I bought in a panic when my third child was born, and I realized that our small SUV would not accomodate 3 child seats. I'm a complete nerd, but I like to pretend that I'm cool by driving a cool car. But the Sienna is not cool, and my false cool facade (that no one else noticed except me, in any case) was completely shattered when I drove the Sienna. Which is every weekend, whenever the family goes anywhere.But I got over that eventually: the Sienna is a really nice car. It handles well, has a smooth ride and is very comfortable for the five of us. We can drive up to Maine on vacation, and there is plenty of room for all the kid stuff, and I can still see out the back window.
We also haven't had a single problem with it, unlike the "cool" German cars my wife and I had until we got sick of taking them to the shop 6 times a year. OK, there was one problem: I ripped the driver's side rearview mirror off on a poll in parking garage. But Toyota replaced it under warranty. How cool is that?
-- bill odonnell, February 9, 2006
Well...my two cents. I have a Sienna 99 CE and it has been great. Oh yea the door problem and CD problem etc. But these have not been major issues...this car handles and runs beautifully each and everytime. It has 93000 miles and has never been in the shop for repair.......uhummm. Sounds like there were manufacturing issues with some.....but not mine. Clearly these are minimal complaints compared to any American manufactured automobile. I also have a 93 Chevy Suburban that has had three engines and three transmissions before 180,000 miles....now clearly not a good sign for GM. I have changed my Sienna over to synthetic oil and this is suppose to stop sludge build up....so maybe that is why I have had no problems. I put the highest milage rated tire I could find on this Sienna and I am still using my second set....the oem tires were garbage and I new that when I bought it. Changed those at 30,000 miles. I rotate and change oil every 5,000 miles and it works out OK. I think I might be able to keep this Sienna ten or more years and its paid off....sorry for all your troubles out there...I guess I was just lucky!
-- Lew Orban, March 8, 2006
We own a Sienna 2004 (about 42000 miles as of today). Since purchasing this mini van we have had numerous plastic pieces fall off all over the van. One of the middle row seat belts kept locking up. It was finally recalled in 2005 after nearly 2 years of trying to get it repaired. The big issue that I am looking for others with the same complaint is the acceleration and deceleration of the vehicle. When the gas pedal is pressed very often the van fails to accelerate. Often when it does finally engage, the van surges forward rapidly enough to whip the passengers around. On the other end of thisý when the brakes are applied there are times when the van accelerates. Up until today continuing to press the brakes has helped to actually cause the van to begin the breaking process. Today; however, the surging forward while the break was being pressed caused the van to accelerate forward fast enough that it caused an accident. It was another vehicle that stopped our vanýs forward momentum. Until today I felt as though I was crazy or imagining things when I would feel the surging when it should be breaking. Prior to today the van was taken to the dealer where it was purchased on at least three occasions to have this repaired. I was told several times that the computer controls had to be recalibrated. The last time I was told that the computer had to get used to my driving habits.
-- Tammy Rummel, April 1, 2006
I have a 2001 toyota sienna ce and I that same problem with the transmission shifting from first gear to second. At first I thought that my transmission was failing because my check engine light was flashing on and off. Also with regular oil changes, I noticed that everytime I checked my oil levels (once a week) it seems pretty low. I chalk this one up to the engine burning oil since I have about 105000 miles on it but I was told that every once in a while a puff of smoke comes out. I started to do some research on recalls and I found this site. I have that rattling in the front end and the driver's side sliding door jams.
-- chris b, April 3, 2006
I also have the 2004 Sienne XLE Limited. I love the turning radius and the roominess. I don't love that I had to have my tires replaced at 30K miles and my front brakes replaced at that same time. Especially since I asked my dealer to inspect my brakes a month prior to that and they said nothing was wrong. Now at 50K I am having the same breaking issue and they told me today there is nothing wrong with them. I asked for a seciond opinion. I also feel the surge forward sometimes when applying the breaks. I no longer feel safe in my 1st minivan. And what, a fool, I did pay sticker when they first came out in March 03
-- Karen Levin, May 5, 2006
I have Sienna 2003. I believe it has persistent problems which many other Sienna car owners have - side door jammed. It happen to two side doors so many times in the first year and we had sent it to the car dealer to dix it. The dealer replaced them with new locks. After on year, it happens many times to the right side door again. My kids sometimes have to take a risk to get our of the car from left side of door.I send it to the dealer again today. This time, the dealer wants to charge me for $500+ to replace the replaced lock!!!.
I am so sick of it!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.autos.toyota/browse_thread/thread/adc6a2a54c710413/348b62c0967e713f?lnk=st&q=Toyota+Sienna+rear+door&rnum=2&hl=en#348b62c0967e713f
-- jim zheng, May 26, 2006
Well, mine is a success story. I bought a 1999 Sienna LE with 42,000 miles from a private party in late 2001. Then a few months later I bought a new 2002 Corolla from a dealer. The saleman asked me if I had register my van for the warranty. I told me it was a private sale but he said it didn't matter anyway. So I registered both cars with Toyota America (in El Toro, CA, I think) and made a record for ownership and mileages, etc. Earlier this year, in March, the Sienna, at 63,000 miles, had a catastrophic transmission failure. I had the car towed to my own mechanic and ready to pay big bucks for the repair. My mechanic told me that Sienna might have had a recall for that year/model, so he recommended me to call Toyota. I did. The service was professional from A-Z. They told me that since I have been a loyal customer, and that the warranty for the power train was just recently expired (it's 6 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes soon), they gave me a courtesy extension to 100,000 in order to cover the repair. Make a long story short, in less than 2 days, I got my car back with a brand new transmission. It was gratis, zip, and zero payment but the bill I signed for their record was about $3,300. Oh, they also gave me a loaner to drive around for 2 days whle waiting for the repair--a 2006 Avalon. My son kept saying that we should have kept the Avalon. Haha, dream on, kiddo. Now is that a good service or not? I think instead of contacting the dealer, the owner should contact Toyota America Headquarters and let them adjudicate the case and direct it to the dealer in your area. Oh, one more thing. Ever since the repair, I periodically receive promotional coupons from the dealer and recently I had the timing chains and all the blets replaced for less than $330. Now can you beat that? I figure preventive maintenance should be done to safe the costly repair. I change oil every 2,000 miles too and I had it done at a Goodyear in my neighborbood. I joined the club and it only cost me $11.00 (with oil and oil filter included). They even rotate the tires free.
-- kimo kaahomano, June 2, 2006
SOLUTION for the sliding door button.This works for me when the button sticks. You make a fist and hammer the handle just below the button, the button usually pops out after one or two good wacks. I found this out after taking the door and handle apart to see if I could find out what was causing the problem. Yes, my 98 had sludge, consumed oil in 2000 and was told poor oil change habits. The value seals have been replaces and my fingers are now crossed.
-- Murray Smith, June 17, 2006
I have a 2004 Sienna XLE and have very consistent problems with the run flat tires. Every time the tires are rotated the front tires get really choppy --- like they are out of balance. Toyota has recently issued a recall/problem sheet from Dunlap. Dunlap Tires just can't get these tires right so I've had 3 sets of tires on the van already --- every 15,000 miles after they rotate. The current tires are doing the same because the dealer rotated the tires again. We wait again while the dealer tries to get info from Dunlap. We pay the deductible each time the tires are replaced but it is ridiculous that the tires are so bad.We also had a very interesting/unique problem in the very beginnning. I noticed (as the primary driver) a knocking sound in the front end. My hubby thought it was from jumping a curb at one point. After several trips to the dealer it was finally determined the van was built without the sway bar in front. Ticket for a potential disaster and luckily we never had a accident. They had to order the part from Japan.
Overall, I'm satisfied with the van but I agree with several of the other comments.
I too feel a lurching forward with the van when a press the accellerator at times. Braking is sometimes touchy too. Minor problems one shouldn't have for an expensive vehicle.
-- Kathleen Bolton, June 29, 2006
We have a 2005 Toyota Sienna LE. Along with the car purchase in end of May 2005, we also purchased a service contract at Power Toyota Irvine. I only have about 14.7K miles on it so far (after 14 mos). But due to the service conrtact, I was forced to bring the car in for service no matter what. I brought the car in today for 15K service and the dealership called me and told me that I must replace the brakes and rotors for $500 and they told me it is not covered by warranty! First, I didn't feel anything wrong with the brake. Secondly, the van only have less than 15K and I braked normally, how could it be? I talked to one of my coworker who owns a 2004 Toyota Sienna XLE, he told me that he has the same issue and was told by Tustin Toyota to fix it at about $500, too. And he said he brakes normally and can't believe he has to fix the brakes so early. I think there must be some design problems that cause such problem. Of course, Toyota won't admit that and will claimed it is user's problem. Does anybody has similar expereience?
-- Faye Lee, July 14, 2006
I have a 2004 Toyota Sienna XLE. It currently has 14,300 miles and the front brake pads have worn. The inner left pad has worn significantly more than the outer left and the front right pads. The dealership is stating that this normal wear and tear. I have never had a car go through pads in this short of a time, or with uneven wear. The dealership will not budge. I have a complaint in with Toyota and as of right now I have not heard back from them. If you have a similar situation, please e-mail me immediately.
-- Robert Pistani, August 22, 2006
To fix the sticking sliding door button: Get yourself a spray can of white lithium grease from the auto parts store. Spray generously into the crevice between the button and the door. You can gently pry the button out with a screw driver covered in duct tape (to prevent scratching), and work the button in and out. It took me 15 minutes to solve this problem.You may also want to squirt some penetrating oil in there and allow it to drip down into the door first. This will cut through the white lithium grease, so put this on first.
-- Dean Morrell, August 31, 2006
I have the 1998 Toyota Sienna and have also had the door lock problems for years. We have the children use the other door (which by the way can only be opened from the inside as it broke on the outside).I opened the passenger front door the other day and had to laugh because it almost fell off. I looked and it had come unscrewed. I was seriously told a new door would have to be ordered. Ha! I didn't stay on the phone long enough to find out what they wanted to charge for that. I grabbed the screwdriver and went outside. Time for rpairs... 5min on phone, 2 min. laughing and 1 min for actual repair and test of the door. Thanks Dean for the DIY fix on the stuck locks on the passenger doors. I'm going to try it once I get the tires today.
Also, I agree with the tires getting burned up quickly on the Toyota. I'm headed today to replace all 4 tires (after 18k miles). After the front tires got worn down they just rotated them to back. They also said front end alignments aren't needed as often as I originally requested. Now I'm going to insist that everytime I get the oil changed that the tires will be rotated and balanced and a front end alignment done.
-- Amy Ishmael, September 1, 2006
I am the persistent owner of a Toyata Sienna '99 LE...Persistent because I have not given up. I don't have time to deal with every problem I've had, just the ones to keep it running and safe and passing inspections. So far--Engine blew after about 65K miles. Air conditioning system has been replaced 2X. CD player stopped working many many years ago... Passenger side remote door sometimes has a mind of its own (won't work, will work, won't work...)
Most curiously, I have had a wide variety of light problems. The turn signals don't always turn on. This is remedied by sharply punching the top of the dashboard (which always freaks out my passengers). The inside dashboard light sometimes doesn't work (but violence doesn't solve it). Once when the car was in park, the emergency flashers came on by themselves. Another time (once) I couldn't get the turn signal to turn off! (had to turn off the engine to stop the flashing). Fortunately --KNOCK ON WOOD -- I have NOT had a problem yet with the headlights suddenly going out as I'm driving at night(and I have to ask, why do I test fate?). The interior lights go out on the left, driver's side of the car--in the front row of seats, the middle row, and the back row. Lights on the right-hand side are ok, left-hand side always goes out.
The driver's side visor came with a mirror and light on the back side... the mirror and light unit randomly fell off into my lap one day as I was cruising down the interstate--that was a shocker.
The front tires need frequent replacement--glad to know I'm not alone in this problem.
Currently my check engine light is on...and I'm trying to determine if I should be paranoid about the engine going a 2nd time. I will NOT be buying another Sienna. My sis-in-law was very excited when she bought a new one a few years ago and has had no big problem. Our family is on the cusp of outgrowing the minivan era...so I look forward to retiring this oddity to the memory books.
-- Debbie Winter, September 1, 2006
I own a 2005 Sienna XLE AWD that I purchased new in March 2005. With around 15,000 miles on it, I am experiencing the runflat tire feathering problem and wear problem. In addition, I have noted that each of my rims have corrossion, as indicated by the finish bubbling from the edge of the paint in the opening and eminating toward the outer area. Toyota has agreed to replace all four tires at no cost to me (I thought they were doing me a favor until this weekend when I received a notice from the U.S District Court indicating this is the settlement in a class action law suit against Toyota). As far as the rims are concerned, they are willing to "give" me two if I buy two at a cost of $904, which I refuse. This is clearly a manufacturing defect to me (poor paint process/lack of paint), but Toyota refuses to budge. I'd be interested to hear from other folks that have the 17 inch aluminum alloy rims if they have a similar problem. The dealer's service manager tells me that he has seen others like this, but not many. They tell me the zone representative will not do anything else other than give me two if I buy two (he never came out and saw my rims). I am also having loud whining noises at around 50 MPH and am wondering if replacing the run flats solved this for those that have had runflat problems.
-- Tom S, September 9, 2006
I have a 1998 Toyota Sienna. The side door lock was broken several times. First time about 30K and dealer fixed it for free. After that at about 40K it start to fail again. It seems the design is very bad. If you close the door with the button pressed then you can't close and if it closed then you can't open. Very very painful experience when you have passengers and they have to climb out from the front. I wish toyoto could recall this.David Han
-- David han, September 26, 2006
We purchased a 2004 Sienna XLE Limited that now has 48,000 miles on it, from Panama City Toyota in Panama City, FL. Overall we have been very happy with the van, although we have had some issues. First, the air conditioner, which is a front and rear climate control system, went out and began blowing heat instead of cold air. This is a major issue where we live (Florida!). We took it in to be repaired and they charged us $130 for a test to check the hoses, reported all was fine and system was now working. They added freon. We questioned it, but were assured it was fine now. 2 days later, same problem. We took it back, and after a couple of days at the Toyota service center, they determined there was indeed a problem other than low freon (I wonder, was it really low in the 1st place???!) So they quoted us $690 in addition to the $130 we have already paid. After much discussion, they finally agreed to make the repairs at no further charge to us, due to our shattered confidence in Toyota quality.Other problems we have experienced: Intermittent engine knocking (I hope this is NOT the sludge issue everyone else on this site seems to be having!); Intermittent passenger side automatic door lock button not working properly; Intermittent problems with hydraulic rear door opening. The Toyota service facility at the dealership has never been able to duplicate any of our complaints, therefore they have done nothing to fix it. I have insisted that it be documented for future reference in case the problems become permanent. Not that it will matter, they'll still charge me an arm and a leg for the repairs I am sure!
One more thing - we got the ToyoGuard which is a guarantee on the paint (among other things). Well, don't waste your money on that - the paint pits and peels as bad as any car I've had...and of course, they blame it on the consumer not taking proper care of the vehicle. Well, we spent $48,000 on this car just 2 years ago - I certainly should not be looking at needing new paint at this point, even if I had kept it outside (not garaged) the entire time. Ridiculous!
-- Pamela Turley, October 5, 2006
Hi, I too own a 2000 Sienna LE that has begun displaying the same symptoms of the "oil gel"/"oil sludge" problems discussed here. I get the bluish smoke on startup and my oil light was coming on and off and staying on until I took it in for service to a non-toyota shop. They advised of the oil sludge problem and offered a few solutions of varying costs--we chose the cheaper one but kept their estimate for the others to consider. A week later, the oil light came on again, so back to the dealer we went for another cleanout of the oil pan and oil change. Then yesterday, we received a notice about the class-action lawsuit in Oregon against Toyota for these EXACT problems!! Was I shocked!! I am going to try to get the van fixed at the dealer as the lawsuit suggests and try to get reimbursed for the expenses we have already spent to fix the problem. Keep your fingers crossed!Btw, we have loved the van and used it very, very much--many long trips, and lots of miles with very little maint. cost or repairs until now (it's 7 yrs old and we have replaced tires, brakes, a water pump, a fuel pump, alternator, and the battery, so we haven't really had much expense until now with the oil gel/sludge problem).
One annoying problem we have had that I didn't see here, is that our doors don't really stick like the others talked about, but we have had 3 of the 4 door handles BREAK! The first time was in winter, so I chalked it up to the kids pulling quickly on a frozen handle, but now 2 others have broken in warm and hot temps, so the first assumption was probably wrong--they're just defective!
Overall, we have been very pleased with this purchase--it was more expensive than the other minivans we tested, but we feel like we have gotten what we paid for (until now, with the oil gel/sludge problem that may have us replacing the motor, that is). In fact, we're considering buying two new Rav4's to replace this van and a 2006 Saturn ION that I don't really like much.
I'm attaching the class-action lawsuit notice if anyone wants the info. Hope this helps someone else...
Attachment: Toyota_Sienna_2000_Van_Legal_Notice.pdf
-- matthew hinkle, November 15, 2006
We own a '98 sienna. No major issues, except some design flaws. For one example, passenger sliding doors jam when opening. Often times we keep a screwdriver as a means to open the jammed lock. Second, we noticed that the rear manual hatch release broke one day. apparently the plastic piece attached with a spring snapped off, so I had to replace it. Some positives about this sienna tho. No sludge problem (i.e. check engine light, blue smoke from the tail pipe etc.) Drivable through all kinds of weather conditions, and good for long trips and carrying some light loads and/or passengers. I doubt that I would consider anything else as of now, I have a 125,000 miles and the minivan is still going strong. I had considered the land cruiser before I purchased the Sienna. But because the land cruiser is a gas guzzler (standard 8 cylinder engine),and nearly $50,000, I didnt want to waste my money on a luxury SUV.
-- Jeff Franks, January 30, 2007
I bought a 2000 Sienna LE new. I have loved this car! I bought the 100,000 mile warranty, and only used it once for a starter that I don't think was broken to begin with. The only annoyance I have is that the right rear sliding door has parts near the handle that recently started to rattle. It isn't annoying enough to fix. In 2007, with 135,000 miles on the car, it started blowing blue smoke. I took it into Del Toyota in Downingtown, PA, and they looked up my repair record. I had done all scheduled maintenance at the dealership, and all oil changes, although some of my oil changes had been a thousand or so miles late. They decided that was close enough and repaired the engine for free. I had a similar experience with my last Toyota in different state that was repaired for free tens of thousands of miles after warranty, so I am a big fan.
-- Sharon Link, March 11, 2007
I have a 2001 Toyota Sienna Van and it has 180,000 + miles of a combination of highway, street and a lot of dirt road driving (I live on a dirt road). Other than an occasional "clunk" that comes from the rear coil springs (and has since new), my van is the most reliable, quiet and "no rattles" vehicle I have ever owned. My tires last 40,000 + miles including driving on dirt roads, has no inside "rattles", and still is quiet driving.Now that the kids are out of the house and off to college, I plan to buy a new Toyota pickup next year but will keep my van for continued use. This has to be the best vehicle I have ever owned and would recommend it to anyone. I'm sorry you had the trouble you had with yours but I haven't seen the any of the same problems.
-- Thomas Brandt, March 22, 2007
I just wanted to say, that I believe that I have been royally screwed by Sunrise Toyota in Oakdale NY. My husband was driving our 1998 Toyota Sienna Minivan the other day, and all of a sudden without any warning, the car made a funny noise, somewhere in the engine and broke down!!! We were shocked, becaus ethe car only has 80,0000 somewhat miles on it. I have always had toyota service it and give it oil changes. I even put about $2000.00 worth of service into it, back in late 2004, prior to myself having another baby.I replaced the timing belt and all of that stuff, according to my service chart from Sunrise Toyota. Well we had the car towed down the block to the Sunrise Toyota service station and that told me that it would cost $99.95, just to diagnose the car, so I figured I had no choice, so I said ok. They called me back a few hours later and said that the engine was damaged, and that it probably was not worth fixing, because they would have to rip the engine out to diagnose it, and that would be very costly and labor intensive and that it would probably cost about 3500.00, plus the cost of a new engine!!! in total about 9-10 k to repAIR. well, we were shocked, this is a car that I babied!! how could such a thing happen? i also remember getting a paper in the mail from toyota about the oil gel problem. I think that this problem is related, but sunrise toyota in ny, said that, that help has expired. and that they were sorry for the mishap. Then about 20 minutes later they called me back again, and by the way they said we will just charge you $25.00 for diagnosing your car instead of the original $99.95!!! gee thanks!!!i have now researched this whole topic and i am going to contact toyota and fight them!!
-- Theresa Meyer-Kurka, April 15, 2007
Our 2000 Toyota Sienna is just one of those cars that did not work out for our family the way we planned. It now has 86,000 miles on it and it limps along as we try to get our useful life from it. We had the blue smoke problem beginning at 23,000 miles in 2002. The car was a dog despite our attempts to maintain it. I took it to the dealership and they said it would cost $4,000 to fix. They explained the process of filing a complaint, getting your ID no. and producing the receipts, and they would analyze the problem and let me know how much it would cost. It sounded like they did not really want to perform the warranty work. So, I increased the frequency of the oil changes, desludged the engine with chemicals and it ran until it had 58,000 miles on it, with occassional blue smoke. At 58,000 miles in 2004, the engine light came on and there nothing I could do to extinguish it. I went back to Toyota, but was again discouraged despite the new process they had for dealing with claims. They said if I agreed to pay for a bunch of maintenance, like timing belt, replace some pumps and hoses, they would consider repairing the sludge problem. So I asked what's it going to run me? They said the sludge remedy was replacing the short block, which was a $4500 repair, then the timing belt, plugs, pumps, and hoses would run another $2500 or so. Provided Toyota OK'd my claim, the cost would be just the $2500, if they didn't then it could be $5,000. They told me they wouldn't know how much it would be until after Toyota reviewed the claim. This was scary territory for me. That was alot of my money Toyota was throwing around and they weren't going to tell me what the cost until after the work was inititiated. I could not risk that much on a car and in a company I had lost confidence in. I went to a local repair shop, and they thought they could fix the problem for $1500, but they would not be able guarantee no blue smoke. They asked if I would like to do the timing belts while they were in the engine. I said sure. The total bill was projected to be $1700. While the bill was still more than I wanted to pay, it was a defined sum of money and they got the minivan up and running again. It turned out one of the valves had failed. There was quite a bit of sludge around all the valves, but the valve on the no. 1 cylinder was completely burned through. The car still had the occassional blue smoke, but it was running pretty well. Now at 86,000 miles, the smoke has become more prevalent, and the minivan is burning through quite a bit of oil. I recently replaced the plugs and the battery. It is burning through about one quart of oil every two weeks. I kid with my wife now we are on a automated oil changing regimen. I don't know what the best course of action is any more, if we keep the van and run it until it dies we might get another couple of years out it. Fixing the blue smoke problem seems unlikely, since it probably has worn rings as well which are probably compounding the oil problem. I will return to our non-Toyota mechanic and get his best opinion of what we could do with the car. E-check will be in 10 months, and the chances of it not smoking during the e-check are pretty slim. We really had hoped this car would be a better experience than it has been, but we are resigned to deal with it as our problem. Our other plan at this point is to trade it in and move on to a non-Toyota product. Anyone experiencing the sludge problem would have a very hard time placing trust in a name like Toyota again.
-- W Lewandowski, April 30, 2007
toyota
We'll we purchased a 2005 toyota sienna in June of 2005. I have done the oil changes on time every time like toyota said every (5,000 miles) done the tune ups. and I still have bad luck with cars. I had to replace the tires twice (Bad Wear) need new rims (bad rims) my side door decided to quit working even manualy (cable fraying) I have to different noise that I can't find where they are coming from. The big things THE SLUDGE IS COMING! My AC just quit. I have changed Brake pads in the front FIVE times and in the back TWO times. It started without any road noise, now alot of road noise just like Caravans. Just having it for 6 months a had a fuel problem with it, but luckly for warranty's and my battery just deciced to quit like that. So all this in TWO YEARS.
-- Diana Harrop, May 14, 2007
I have a 2004 Sienna CE I purchased new in 2003. From reading the comments all I can say is I'm glad I didn't buy an XLE! My experience both with my van and my dealer have been nothing but positive. The van now is approaching 70,000 miles. I'm still running the Dunlop 4000 tires that came with the van, although I do run winter tires. My only brake job was done at 60,000 miles and I have yet to do a tune-up. My van runs great, gives me exceptional gas mileage for the size of the vehicle, and looks almost as good as the day I bought it. I've been so impressed with Toyota's service and my vehicle that both my daughters now drive Toyota products. On a recent very cold January morning one daughters car wouldn't start. The dealer sent a tow truck to retreive her car, a loaner for her to use, and returned her car the next day. No Charge!! My next vehicle will be another Toyota.
-- sandy kirsopp, August 18, 2007
I have a 2004 sienna and a 2005 sienna that just give me headachesthe 2004 sienna leaks water near the trunk, and we have taken it to the dealership and they have "claimed to fix it" like 3 or 4 times. W e bought rear A/C in the back so our kids wont have to be to hot or cold as they did with our previous 1996 windstar. The heat only comes out when you put it on the floor switch, otherwise its cold in the van when u put the heat on.
The matrix: the check engine light has gone on at least 10 times already and it has only 36000 miles. Toyota has bad service as they cannot find the problem, they "replace" a part and the check engine goes off, but the next day the check engine light is back on. The cd player had to be replaced, there has been like 5 recalls on the engine and get this:
TOYOTA WILL NOT MAIL YOU IF THERES A RECALL YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT TO THE DEALER TO FIND OUT IF THERES A RECALL
THERE IS HORRIBLE DEALERS THAT JUST "CLAIM" TO FIX THE PROBLEMS
I WOULD NOT SUGGEST BUYING ANOTHER TOYOTA
-- a grover, November 2, 2007
I have a 2005 Sienna. I finally got the door poping fixed but have had a horrible time with the electronic sliding door. If someone tries to open the door while you are remotely unlocking, the door jams and cannot be opened. I have had it fixed twice under warranty and now am out of warranty and it is going to cost a lot to fix. They say that some plastic piece in the door will break. Anyone have any ideas?
-- Michele Mathis, March 18, 2008
I am having a similar transmission problem to those reported here. Below is my story (I have sent this letter to Toyota arbitration, to no avail). Can anyone recommend any other form of recourse other than to shell out $2500 to replace a transmission that Toyota is unwilling to stand behind?:I purchased my 1998 Toyota Sienna minivan from Sloane Toyota in Devon, PA, in the summer of 2003. I also purchased a 3-year extended warranty. Within the timeframe of the warranty, in the winter of 2004-2005, the transmission started making an odd noise and was replaced under warranty by Sloane in June 2005.
Within the one-year warranty on that new transmission, my car started experiencing what I thought to be unusual behavior: on the very coldest of mornings, it would not automatically shift out of first gear into second gear for one to two miles, or about five to ten minutes, even if I pressed the accelerator down quite far. (I was driving slowly on neighborhood streets.) I immediately contacted Sloaneýs service department and described the problem in detail to one of the service people. They told me definitively that this behavior was ýnormalý and nothing to worry about. I questioned this, but was assured that everything was ok with my car. I even called one more time and received the same reassurance, plus the suggestion that I might check the transmission fluid level (I did, and it was full). They did NOT recommend that I bring the car in to be checked, or that there was any reason for concern, or that I should even check the color of the transmission fluid (I will refer to this later).
Over the next two winters, there were very few truly frigid mornings during which this behavior exhibited itself, as we have had relatively mild winters in the Philadelphia area lately. Thus, trusting the advice of Toyotaýs service department, I ignored this behavior on the few mornings it occurred. I should mention that this only happened in the morning when the car was completely cold. It never happened at the end of the day when I left work for home and the car had been sitting all day, for example. Additionally, the car exhibited no other unusual behavior during this time.
Then this past winter, my car started exhibiting other odd behaviors that seemed to point to the transmission as the source. The gear slippage worsened a bit - it would occasionally be slow in switching between other gears, typically from second to third. I also started hearing a high-pitched whine that rose in pitch as I accelerated. I finally broke down and brought my car into Sloane Toyota to have it checked, and they said my transmission was shot, and that it would cost $5000 to replace it. Sloane said they would not cover the replacement because my new transmissionýs warranty had expired. I pointed out that I had experienced and reported unusual behavior earlier on, and that they never told me to bring it in. I also pointed out that it seemed quite clear that my more recent gear slippage was a worsening of the original problem on cold mornings, and thus an inherent problem in the new transmission they had installed in 2005. I said that this all could have been avoided if they had advised me to bring it in rather than assuring me that the symptoms I had experienced were ýnormalý. I pointed out that I did not bring it in because I was not advised to do so by their own service department ý I had relied on their advice. I spoke with the service manager, Jim Nagle, on several occasions, trying to convince him of this, and thus that Toyota had some responsibility in the matter, i.e., in taking responsibility for the poor advice of his own service department, but he remained firm on this position.
I also went the route of issuing a complaint through Toyota Customer Service (Case #200803280014), and ultimately spoke with a regional service manager, Larry Roberts. Mr. Roberts indicated that the original problem of not switching from first to second gear on cold mornings was a ýsafety featureý to prevent stressing the transmission, and that the new problems I was experiencing were completely separate and unrelated.
For a second expert opinion, I then took my car to a very reputable and highly-recommended local transmission shop near me, Patýs Transmissions in Folsom, PA, and had them check it out. The manager, Roy Shillady, said the transmission was a mess, that whatever was wrong had been building up for several years (i.e., since before the warranty expired). He said he found many ýchunks of metalý in the transmission fluid and that the filter was completely clogged. The fluid was black rather than the usual clear color. He didnýt think it would last more than a few months. I explained the entire history of my transmission and my dealings with Toyota. He pointed out that Sienna minivans have a history of bad transmissions from the late 1990s through the early 2000s, and that my initial transmission replacement was one of many that Toyota quietly did under warranty. I described to him what Mr. Roberts had said about the ýsafety featureý of the car not shifting gears while the car was cold, and he said it was complete and utter nonsense, that in all his years of transmission repair of Toyotas and every other kind of car, that there was no such safety feature. Obviously, Mr. Roberts was lying to me in order to get me off his back, something I seriously resent and am deeply offended by as a Toyota customer. I called Mr. Roberts back to tell him what Mr. Shillady had said, and asked him for proof of such a safety feature. He ignored my request and became very gruff, hostile, and non-responsive.
Patýs Transmissions replaced my clogged transmission filter and refilled the fluid, to at least give my car some short-term life. I have attached their receipt as proof. Their cost to replace the transmission is *only* $2500 (not surprisingly half of the dealerýs price).
It surprises and distresses me that Toyota will not stand by their cars in this situation. Certainly, a new transmission should last more than a couple of years, especially on a Toyota!
Here are the points I was hoping would convince Toyota to take responsibility in this matter: ý Patýs Transmissions expertly diagnosed how badly my transmission was damaged, compared to how relatively new it was. ý The extent of damage points to the certainty that problems started very early on, related to my original problem of gear shifting on cold mornings. I would even suggest that the ýnewý transmission Sloane Toyota installed was a ýlemoný, i.e., faulty right from the start. ý Sloane Toyotaýs service department gave me poor and erroneous advice that the original symptoms I was experiencing were ýnormalý; moreover, they did *not* recommend that I bring my car in to have it checked while it was still under warranty. ý There is a known history of Sienna transmission problems in the timeframe of when my car was manufactured. I have had two bad transmissions in my car over the span of only five years! ý As a manufacturer of high-quality cars, Toyota should be expected to stand behind their products. Transmissions should not fail after such a short time, regardless of the arbitrary one-year warranty.
-- Selene Platt, May 27, 2008
