Alex, the bitch from Hell (Roxanne, mine all mine until September 6), and I were in Harvard Yard tonight and ran into a Mexican family that had moved to Wellesley, Massachusetts for one year in order to improve their English. The kids had enrolled in the public middle school, transferring from a private school in their provincial Mexican town (a couple of hours from Mazatlan). In subjects where they were able to compare, such as math and science, the school in Wellesley is a full year behind the school in Mexico in terms of what they expect from and what they are teaching to kids of the same age. Students of globalization will find it interesting that Wellesley operates one of the most demanding public school systems in the state of Massachusetts. The Wellesley high school is rated the #2 public high school in the Boston area by the September 2004 issue of Boston Magazine (full rankings available on their Web site, http://www.bostonmagazine.com/), with annual per-pupil spending of $9600 and an average teacher salary of $59,577. For American workers who hope to earn more than Mexicans in an efficient globalized economy this seems like bad news.
[The news is far worse for graduates of the City of Cambridge public school system. Our high school was rated #56 by Boston Magazine despite maxing out the spending column with $14,840 per year per kid and an average teacher salary of $56,450 (if you work the numbers a bit it would seem that Cambridge has more teachers per student and also more administrators than Welllesley). The average SAT score of a Cambridge kid is 954 and only 67 percent go to a 4-year college so the bottom third of the class might not even take the SATs (92 percent of Wellesleyites go on to college so presumably their average SAT score, 1190, is more representative).]
I suggested to the kids that they take photos of the brand-new McMansions dotting their town, the splendid green lawns, and the quaint Wellesley town center then go back home and tell their friends that “everyone in the U.S. lives like this.”
Ref: “…in subjects where they were able to compare [math/science]…”.
That’s the rub. I *do* agree that US kids spend waaay too much time “studying” trivia as opposed to math/science. On the other hand, Russia has (in terms of math/science) the best-educated kids in the world. Where does it get them? Note that I just traveled to Russia after which I am convinced “talented generalists” are what makes a country great (ie USA). “Specialists” fill the niche jobs.
Note that as an economist I believe that unless immigration is stopped, the niche-education foreigners and illiterate foreigners will continue to displace “Americans” (i.e. these groups will “pinch both ends of the educational-bell-curve”). If you want to call me “anti-immigration” OK, but only from the low-end side (really how many illiterate (sp) immigrant cab drivers does America need?)
Also while the US likes to say jobs are “seasonally adjusted” I’ve never seen adjustments made for immigration nor global outsourcing. So, even extremely small rates of immigration (if the US unemployment rate were 6%, that would require 94% of immigrants to “get jobs”. Ha!), coupled with extremely small amounts of outsourcing, coupled with extremely small degrees of improved-efficiency, will spell disaster for “US employment numbers”. Note that not every immigrant gets a job (here in Orange County CA, a majority of immigrants are older VietNamese who go directly to welfare).
America (called by the Economist magazine “the most ruthlessly efficient economy in the world”) will always take the path of least resistance in “getting the job done”. That’s a major reason we’re the worlds #1 power in almost everything that counts. And corrected for “size-of-country” the US is far-and-away the best at everything; please no wacky comments on The New China or Indian Tiger Economy –both operating on the steep part of the diminishing-returns curve– and puh-leeze no comments about “those amazing Swedes” (Switzerland, Singapore, New Zealand etc).
What we need today are “new metrics” to go with the “new economy”…
My off-the-page suggestion to “fix” the US educational system:
1) School vouchers.
2) SAT-like tests at every grade level, with realistic performance-minimums
3) PAY THE KIDS for scoring high on the tests. Screw paying teachers ever-more for delivering ever-less. Teachers have (A) not as much direct impact on kid-learning as everybody thinks and (B) “making money” is a metric any 3rd grader can relate to.
Yeah yeah I need more details but hey this isn’t really the forum…
>>Teachers have (A) not as much direct impact on kid-learning as everybody thinks
I totally disagree with that assertion. A quality teacher can make a immense difference, in fact, on such a scale that cannot be measured by a ratio or any numeric quantifier. I look back on my education path, and while most of the teachers were of poor and/or mediocre quality, there were a few that challenged and sparked me to greater heights. They fueled a quest internally, by asking the right question, or by sharing their own thoughts that may in some circles, would have been considered a radical departure from traditional textbook method.
Even reading a book like Philip’s, even when its examples were a archaic, crusty scripting language and a bloated, overly fat and inefficient database engine, enabled me to assmilate and grasp the whole “how to build an interactive web site” deal (though I wish I would have grokked that a few years earlier and I possibly could have become an dot-com millionaire like Philip).
>>Teachers have (A) not as much direct impact on kid-learning as everybody thinks
The proof is in the pudding with this statement.
Look at the performance of first generation East Asians in the US. Their families emphasize education, and so they study and learn regardless of the impediments and lack of funding dollars in whatever local school system they attend.
Hmmm, Philip I think that you may be basing your assessment of Mexican education on an awfully small sampling.
Although I am no expert and my own experience with Mexico is extremely dated I do believe that you happened across a group of people that are members of a very narrow band of Mexican upper-middle class.
About thirty years ago my (extremely) middle-class family would take summer vacations in Mazatlan. At the first opportunity I would escape our vacation enclave and make my way into town to play. Aside from scaring the hell out of my parents I managed to get a good feel for the area. Not desperately impoverished, but nothing like middle-class life in america.
Closer to the vacation spots were a fair number of wealthier homes. What I found to be most striking was their fortress-like building style. Even a relatively modest home (by us standards) would have an impressive block wall studded with broken bottles.
My point is that social mobility and access to education is somewhat limited in Mexico while US (public) schools make an attempt to include anybody that is of age.
Maybe I am waaaay out of date here, but attempting to compare kids that have attended private school and (most likely) belong to an elevated social class to us commoners and our public school systems is pretty much apples n oranges.
Gary: obviously it is true that a Mexican family that can afford to rent a house in Wellesley for a year is wealthier than average but private school is normal for middle class Mexicans, of which there are a large and growing number. If American kids are better-educated than the poorest people in India, China, Mexico, and other very populous countries, that’s something of an achievement (“our government-run schools were able to, on average, outperform Mexico’s at a cost of only $15,000 per year per student”). But do keep in mind that the smartest and best educated 5 percent of India, China, and Mexico constitutes a larger workforce than the entire population of the U.S.
Private schools vs. public schools is almost ALWAYS a no-brainer, regardless of which school systems you are comparing. I would stack a graduate of Assumption High School in Manila up against almost any public school kid in the USA.
Public education (K-12), in the USA at least, should more properly be termed a form of child abuse.
One other fact that you don’t take into account, however, is that 18-year olds don’t stay 18-year olds forever. While American 18yo’s are dumb as rocks, by the time they are 30 they have smartened up considerably.
In contrast the Filipinos I know (greatest sample size) who are 30 often cannot cook for themselves (if single, you stay with your parents and they or the maid cook for you), don’t understand washers and dryers very well (the maid does it all, by hand) and are lacking in other life skills too.
Paul: “That’s a major reason we’re the worlds #1 power in almost everything that counts.”
Please elaborate, what “counts”? As someone who values their health care, education and social security, to name but a few obvious points, I am puzzled…
From Philip: “…obviously it is true that a Mexican family that can afford to rent a house in Wellesley for a year is wealthier than average but private school is normal for middle class Mexicans…”.
Two points (1) While your statement “obviously it is true that a Mexican family that can afford to rent a house in Wellesley for a year is wealthier than average” is *obviously* true, this is like saying “Bill Gates is wealthier than the average American” and (2) “…but private school is normal for middle class Mexicans.”
Whoa! These “middle class” Mexicans you are describing are in the top 5% of all Mexican wage-earners (more likely the top 1%) and as for “private school” this itself has 2 issues (A) “public school” is abysmal and (B) kidnapping is a huge problem in Mexico and to a very large degree private school adresses this issue.
As for Mexico’s (India’s, China’s) “growing middle class”… This is only true in an *absolute* sense (i.e. every year a greater number of people are in the “middle class”) however in *relative* terms the percentage of people in the middle class gets smaller (i.e. “the rich get richer and the poor get poorer”). Data source for all my above points = Economist magazine.
It will be *extremely interesting* to see if your family who “moved to Wellesly to improve their english” ever move back to Mexico. I’ll give 10:1 odds the answer is “no”.
Paul: I’m pretty sure that they are moving back to Mexico as they are part of a family-owned business that sounded quite successful. The U.S. is a dream destination for the world’s desperately poor and it is a good place for folks who like to work long hours then come home to their McMansion and watch 500 channels of TV. Countries like Mexico and India are good for folks who like to go out with friends, see extended family, leave the house and kids with the live-ins on the spur of the moment, etc. Of course one can’t immigrate into that fabulous lifestyle because an immigrant wouldn’t have the old friends and family around. So it is true that the U.S. is a better destination than Mexico for a Somali who wants to drive a cab. We offer higher wages to the unskilled. We speak English. We have mosques. But that doesn’t mean that we should shed any tears for the Mexican middle class (if they constitute only 5% of the population there that works out to 5 million people, most of whom are apparently better educated than the average American; 5% of India is 50 million, btw and 5% of China is 65 million).
Philip: “Countries like Mexico and India are good for folks who like to go out with friends, see extended family, leave the house and kids with the live-ins on the spur of the moment, etc.”
I personally think you are right about that. I would just like to add to the sentence above – ” and people who are just plain content and happy with what they have (and don’t have)”.
I have to lend my support the us public education system. It is my opinion that the us public education system has been key to developing a broad middle class over the past 60 years.
While the ‘average’ us student may pale in comparison to the ‘elite’ students produced by other nations, the mere fact that most children in america have the opportunity to make it through 12th grade with the support of the state is fantastic.
I have been greatly disheartened by the academic ‘white flight’ that has abandoned the public schools and financially strangled them by leaking money to private schools through vouchers.
I believe that it is a good thing to fund public schools through property taxes and I am continually disgusted by enclaves of the elderly that fight to keep their funding away from the education of the nation.
Although universal college education in the us may be an unreachable goal I do believe that students that show academic merit should have the opportunity to attend state schools without going into long-term debt or bankrupting their parents.
Anything less hamstrings the us workforce and puts the us at a major disadvantage to the education elite of other nations that compete for us jobs.
Surely a mixture of socialist opportunity to the masses (for a solid basic education) and free-market advantage to the competent (to higher education) is possible.
One thing that strikes me as odd in a growing number of countries (US, Canada, UK, Australia) is that so many people have attented “university”. Turns out that what many of these studies people call university – acounting, teaching, lower-level electronics (ie: designing boards around chips designed by someone else who did go to university) – should not be that at all.
And it’s not just in the name, they do seem to follow a university like teaching method. That method is an expensive one which is probably not even the best way of teaching people at this level.
In my home country (the Netherlands), university is reserved for the true sciences. (and some trivial ones for historic purposes, like Dutch and Theology) Others are taught in two different levels that have a much more school like structure. And that keeps cost down, making it affordable to let everyone have some higher education – each at their own level.
A strength of the US educational system as a whole seems to be its ability to pick out the best and give them a great education and get the most out of them, hence the somewhat justified perception that the US is ‘#1 in everything that counts’.
The problem the US seems to have (and it is my view, rather than something I have the stats to back up) is that the average, ordinary kid who isn’t academically or athletically gifted seems not to get such a good deal as they might elsewhere. (I recognise this is a simplification. There are different setups in different parts of the ‘States, and it all depends what part of the system you’re in.)
The reality is that an educational system has to cater for strong, weak and medium students. They’re all important for growth in their own way.
Another thing to remember is that progress and growth are no longer just about traditional brainpower; ‘soft’ abilities like empathy and negotiation are becoming more and more important.
Some public schools are better than others, like Princeton (The Town. Where the University is, not the University itself).
But I think the real problem is the concept, or belief, that students need to learn to think before they learn basics. Its a very “progressive” movement started in the late 1970’s. Trying to teach students to ‘think’ before they can even read is a terrible idea.
Most people couldn’t identify important things like the decade of the Civil War, or who was President during WWII.
Ian, considering that someone stated before that the “US is #1 in everything that counts”, based on a “ruthelessly efficient economy” (something no American in this forum seems to deny) why are the answers to those Trivial Pursuit questions important? How does it make kids compete better in the market place?
I have a general idea of Dutch, and world, history, but wouldn’t be able to tell you years of major events before this century, or which prime minister was in power when our friendly neighbours from the east had their extended vacation. Never stopped me making any money as as either radio producer/engineer or computer programmer…
Hi from Liz out in California. Phillip, as I understand it, the Mexican education system makes 0–that is correct, null, nada, none, zip–attempt to educate the entire population. This is a HUGE difference that should not be discounted.
I would bet if the Mexican children in your example were matched school-for-school with an elite private school the differences would disappear.
I also suspect that there’s an undereducated brain drain going on, from the Mexican lower class to the US. I’ve met three or four illegals who I’d bet were in the 150+ range on IQ, but got less than 5 years’ schooling in Mexico. One guy who I think was born in 1980 I met FOB, no English at all & didn’t read well in Spanish. Four months later he’s literate in English and Spanish, fluent (but crappy accent) in English, and has learned wiring and a lot of electrician’s work.
It is hard for Americans to really get a grip on the class and infrastructure barriers put up to achievement by the Mexican culture.
The big deal for the American future IS an educated work force, and the public schools haven’t been doing the job. I for one do not wish to support the number of incarcerated criminals that I am forced to…and when I read that something like 70% of incarcerated felons read at less than 6th grade level–I’m enraged. I am not arguing it is the fault of the school system that they are crooks, but I am saying a person who cannot read at a 10th grade level has many fewer options to make a living wage and support a family.
And the reading debacle is directly a result of loony ideologically based theories being entrenched in the education schools. Whole language indeed. It is as if creationism is all that is being taught in the biology classes.
At any rate, enough rant.
1. They caught up. There is no problem with US K-12 education; rather, the rest of the world just caught up. Given that I don’t think that the world economy is a zero sum game, I don’t think that this is a problem.
To wit:
“High school participation rates have not declined for the United States, but they have increased much faster in other countries, McGaw said. Korea, for example, ranks 24th among adults ages 55 and older but first among more recent high school students, ages 25 to 34. ” –http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/16/world/main643934.shtml
2. OTOH, US post 9/11 xenophobia and anti-terrorist hysteria do threaten US competitiveness. If knowledge is capital, then the loss of US ability to cream the world’s brightest graduate students is a problem. See: “Graduate Foreign Students Post-2001 Decline” http://www.intervarsity.org/ism/news_item.php?news_id=1335
“An article on this topic by John Gavois appeared Thursday, September 9, 2004 in The Chronicle of Higher Education – Today’s News.
It begins: ‘The number of foreign students granted admission to American graduate schools dropped by 18 percent from 2003 to 2004, according to a report released on Tuesday by the Council of Graduate Schools.
‘The report, based on the second survey in a planned series of three, presents a new round of sobering data on the continuing downward trend in graduate admissions since the terror attacks of 2001.’ ”
So, maybe it’s time to kick the Neandertals out of Washington. Ban stem cell research? Stop Graduate students from entering the US? Good god…