In Oaxaca, as in most of the places that I’ve visited in and out of the U.S., it was nearly impossible to find someone who admits to favoring George W. Bush. Yet the guy won 51% of the popular vote. Even here in Massachusetts fully 37 percent of voters supposedly chose Bush. Perhaps voting for Bush is like being a consumer of online porn. Statistics show that it is popular but nobody will admit to doing it.
40 thoughts on “Voting for George W. Bush is like consuming Internet porn”
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I don’t know what to say here…
Among the people that I talk to there was about a 70% kerry vote. Aside from the chance that there was such widespread voter fraud that Huey Long would blush there are some other possibilites.
The people that I know that are for bush fall into a small number of categories.
Extremely business oriented long-term republicans
Fundamental religious followers
AM radio propaganda consumers
Other than friendly debate I really made no more attempt to convert them than to understand them. I feel that I have done too little. For the most part they are good people, but their individual beliefs leave them, um exposed, to the message (lies) that the republican party has spun about themselves.
It really is a shame. Because they get one or two of their beliefs addressed by the republican platform, they are willing to be blind to the dangers that are in that platform.
Beliefs:
pro-business is good for america, they see the democratic party as being fundamentally anti-business They have no direct experience with the necessities of government regulation (labor, environment, drug purity) and as such easily buy into the promotion of laissez fair economics.
fundamentalist religious belief will SAVE america – they have been SAVED through their own religious conversion and their righteous fear for the souls around them justify following a leader that claims those same beleifs
AM radio propaganda junkies – they are so used to passively listening to the right wing message that they have lost the ability to develope their own ideas. They can sound knowledable by repeating what they have heard and that is enough of an ego-stroke that it keeps them listening
So, if you really want to win against the right-wing machine there are a few tactics that may emerge:
Wait for the republicans to draw us into an unlivable hell that will finally open everybodies eyes
Develop and deliver a ‘thinking’ alternative to the messages that they have based their beliefs on
This country is falling into a desperate situation that will see continuing disenfranchisement of voters, jingoistic foreign policies, elimination of the middle class and (i fear) discovery of an ‘enemy within’ that will fuel the fear-driven republican political machine by turning the ‘believers’ against the other 48% of the populace.
Pretty happy view of things, huh?
I voted for Bush. I am a highly educated city dweller. I do not like to “admit” this to many liberals because I don’t like being screeched at and shunned; considered a blinkered fool by people who have probably never read a single work of conservative political philosophy in their pseudointellectual little lives.
There are many of us “metropolitan conservatives”(John Derbyshire’s phrase) or “bohemian tories”(Russell Kirk’s). Come on: look at all of the Northeastern Jewish and Catholic conservatives you see on TV as pundits and working for the Bush administration. We’re happy to form coalitions with rural evangelical folk. Compromise is necessary in democracy, and we don’t look down on and mock them. But when you live in a place where something like 80% or 90% of the people think you’re stupid for what you believe (without even knowing the substance of those beliefs), unless you like arguing and defending yourself all the time, you tend to steer the conversation away from politics.
I voted for Badnarik, but I agree with John above that liberals tend to be patronizing and uniformed about conservative positions. Kerry had no positive points other than not being Bush, so I wasn’t at all surprised that Kerry lost the election. I live in the San Francisco bay area (and also am Jewish, or at least Jewish/atheist) and I know many people who voted for Kerry but don’t know anyone who LIKED Kerry as a candidate. Or as a person, for that matter. They just disliked Bush MORE.
s/uniformed/uninformed
We are skewed by living in new england, but I know many people who were happy to admit voting for bush (especially now). Bottom line, and I’ll argue this point with with anyone: the rational liberal has a higher consciousness than the rational conservative. It’s all about compassion and the greater good.
I work for the news department of a mexican TV network. I’d say about 99% of us favored John Kerry, although in a betting pool the senior staff was split 9 – 7 that Kerry would win.
I voted for Bush. I am not registered as a Republican, not “extremely business oriented”, I’m certainly not religious (athiest), and I don’t listen to AM radio. In fact, I’d say I’m more liberal than conservative (depends on the issue though).
I disagree with Bush on a LOT of things, but I honestly felt he was a better choice than Kerry. I do not blindly accept Republican rhetoric. I have never voted along party lines. I like to pick the best man for the job.
This isn’t to say that I think GW is a great president. He’s not. He’s marginal at best. Nonetheless, I still think he is better than Kerry.
John,
Your experience being a minority in a liberal environment is unfortunately normal for all minorities. When surrounded by neocons, I’ve been told to move to Canada, called a heathen, terrorist sympathizer, etc. The sad egalitarian fact about all minorities (political, racial, religious, etc.) is they are prey to whatever majority they are unfortunate enough to stray into.
All those who think Bush is better than Kerry, just wait and watch. I am not saying it’s Bush’s fault. It’s not. Louis XIV of France has taken rebirth as George Bush, and is living “Exactly” as he did in 1700.
Ted—
If you mean by “higher consciousness” greater empathy, I agree. I have found that liberals tend to be governed by their emotions more than conservatives, in defiance of the facts. But based on my own experience with Kerry voters, even factoring the fact that we have the evangelicals on our side, I would not say that the average Kerry voter is more intelligent than the average Bush voter. Liberals are blinded by the ideology of the Enlightenment or are Benthamists or Marxists, which ideologies are no more irrational than Christianity.
While we conservatives have our own fact-ignoring ideologues (witness many of the National Review crowd), only among conservatives do you find true (non-utilitarian) pragmatists.
“Perhaps it would be well, most of the time, to use this word
“Greater empathy”, eh?
In my experience, the only empathy the left has is for abstractions. They’ll talk a good game about poverty, but when they see a homeless person on the street, instead of giving the guy some money they’ll go into a rant about how the government ought to do something. They’ll talk about the terrible things done in Iraq by American soldiers, but when they meet a person who actually lived in Iraq under Saddam and is thus _thrilled_ to have the Ba’ath party deposed, they’ll just lecture him about his incorrect opinions. They’ll natter until rapture about tolerance, but the moment someone who disagrees with them opens his mouth…well, just watch the fur fly and pray your hearing isn’t permanently damaged by the screeching.
I voted straight-ticket Libertarian this year…but if I’d lived in a swing state, I’d have voted for Bush, and as things stand I’m glad Bush won.
(And for the record, I’m not just a _consumer_ of internet porn, I make a substantial percentage of my livelihood maintaining unix servers on behalf of the _distributors_ of it, and I used to moderate a Usenet newsgroup devoted to it.)
I voted for Bush for the reasons encapsulated in the alias that I have chosen for this forum. The best thing that could ever happen for the Democrats now would be an unambiguous finding from SCOTUS that the 2nd Amendment means what it clearly says and then wipes away a lot of the stupid local and state gun bans. Then there would be no issue for the Republicans to hit the Democrats over the head with every election and a lot of blue collar guys could start voting Democrat again. The second best thing that could happen would be a retreat from the issue by Democrats themselves. However, there are too many in urban areas where this is a local winner issue for this to happen.
Democrats, I say to you again: The gun issue is a national loser issue. You alieniate 10 single-issue voters for every single-issue voter that you capture while the rest of the country puts this issue tenth on their list. You like to point out that the “assault weapons ban” has ~75% support but you don’t realize that no one votes based on that issue other than the single issue voters. I know dozens of NRA members and they all vote. They all vote Republican.
For me, I am a suburb dweller at around 75K in the Chicago area. I have a BSCS and am working on an MSCS part time. I know that getting the BSCS (1992) was a good idea but maybe I am an idiot now for trying to advance that degree.
Yeah, that’s because Kerry supporters are such belligerents and, in some cases, vandals, that few Bush supporters are willing to admit they support Bush.
The reason you don’t know many Bush supporters is that you associate primarily with people with an average iq above 100.
Gun Nut,
I haven’t researched your claim at all but I surely hope you’re wrong and that guns are not THE main issue. Interestingly, today I did read the anti-American communist slacker Michael Moore’s letter to General Wesley Clark in Sept. 2003 asking him to run for president. He quoted this comment from Clark’s position on gun control: “If you are the type of person who likes assault weapons, there is a place for you — the United States Army. We have them.”
Another aside, Moore’s fall tour to get young people to vote helped to contribute to more 18-29 yr olds voting this time than ever before, and for the first time a majority of young adults voted (51.6%). If that interest can be sustained (a really big IF unless they bring back the draft), the young will be a force to be reckoned with.
I’m tired of being lectured to by victim-culture Bush supporters who like to imagine themselves beset upon by liberals from Massachussets, by liberal media bias, despite holding power in every branch of federal government government, and not having had a president from a northern state elected for forty years.
The Republican “poor-little-me” syndrome is one of the most widespread forms of self-obsessed baby-boomer narcissism.
“no direct experience”, “unlivable hell”, “develop a thinking alternative” – if this isn’t a PATHOLOGICAL viewpoint concerning Republicans, I don’t know what is.
McRutter, coverage of Bush was 71% negative in the 2 months leading up to the election.
There were the forgeries pushed by Dan Rather and 60 Minutes, obvious forgeries that were debunked within 24-48 hours. There was the fake flu vaccine scare as well. There was the fake 380 Tons of Ammo story, which was originally set to be broadcast on October 30th or 31st, but was run earlier due to leaks.
The liberal bias is there, even admitted to by the New York Times’ own ombudsman. Just because Repubs have newly won majorities in House and Senate does not mean that liberal bias does not exist.
PatrickG:
more than 71% of what Bush did leading up to the election was bad, thus proving a CONSERVATIVE bias in the media. Seriously, if the media tries to do exactly 50% favorable/50% unfavorable coverage, you don’t get objectivity; you get bias towards the middle, AND THAT BIAS WILL FAVOR THE WORSE CANDIDATE because that candidate is farthest from the center. Finally, any news outlet that devoted time to the swiftvets controversy can not be considered to have a liberal bias.
Regarding the Dan Rather story, CBS admitted the mistake, and the forgeries seem to be recreations of real documents, even the White House accepted them as real at first, which is part of why CBS kept pushing the story.
There were about 1000 people lined up at the Allegheny County Health Dept. to get a very limited supply of flu vaccine one late October morning. I saw them on my way in to work. Most of them were old. It was raining. Hard.
And I can’t wait to hear your explanation for the 380 tons story. Seen the LA Times interviews post-election saying that outnumbered soldiers watched looters run away with those munitions? Election’s over, explosives *still* missing.
If there’s a liberal bias at the times, it’s because liberals make more sense and do a better job of governing. Just look at the deficit.
I voted for Bush and made a mistake of telling it at work. I was insulted several times, including a stupid harassement from three Iranian guys (they are network as engineers on a DHS project funded by Congress and largerly thanks to Bush). I was automatically classified as a redneck, a republican, a devoted christian fanatic, and who knows what. In real life I’m a naturalized citizen with higher education, speak three languages, lived in a few countries, and an atheist. If you disagree with them they will run you down with insults and stereotypical judjement. I’m sure not all democrats are like this, but most at my work place are. So why should I reveal who I voted for to get this kind of response?
The Boston globe listed, the 10 most Democratic cities in New England, based on voters for Bush or Kerry. Predictably, most were in Boston, and the Cape and Islands, and the woods of western Mass.
5th on this list was Shutesburry, MA… a very tiny town in the woods, adjacent to a large water reservoir, which perpetually limits this towns growth. I could only dream of living in an inverse world, in which 3/4 of my neighbors were also Democrats and would just get it.
I live in Mississippi (which has 3/4 Bush type people…with whom I don’t have chemistry with…or go to church with, or shrill girlllllfriend with, or wear a big red pig college sweatshirt, or a fish on my bumper…)
20 years ago, I thought TV would unite the entire country with a Jane Pauley non-accent from Indiana, and all our accents would shrivel up and bland away.
But with 398 channels just the opposite happens. Each viewer simply looks for a channel that mirrors themselves, in color, religion, music, politics, accent etc and chooses those same 10 channels each day.. to hear their locked in cement opinions….As Oprah repeats every afternoon… everyone just wants to be heard, and affirmed that they are OK.
But instead of watching a mirror of me on TV, I might also seek a community that is similar to me…creating feeling that I’m OK, since all my friends and neighbors feel the same way. I aaaaaam that shallow!… When Kerry lost, half the nation felt un-affirmed, un-listened to, that they are not OK… that was rough…. I hear you….do you hear me?? 🙂
I voted for Kerry and made the mistake of telling it at work. My boss has called me a commie liberal and accused me of not supporting our troops. At my year-end performance review on Tuesday, my individual rating dipped by 20 percent, which affects my bonus and pay raise. Strange anomaly given that had consistently been a top ranked employee in my group for 4 years.
I don’t imagine myself beset by Massachussetts liberals…I haven’t been there in years. I _am_ in fact beset by Illinois liberals at home, work, and everywhere I try to go to socialize, and by Michigan liberals when I go to visit my family. Bush winning reelection does not a damned thing about the willingness of the left to utterly disregard the humanity of anyone who disagrees with them.
Have you ever been spit on because of your political beliefs, Mr. Gill? I know I have.
We’re here. We’re not going anywhere. And as much as you might like to wipe us off the face of the earth, we’re more numerous than you are (making it unlikely we’ll lose control of government) and a lot better armed (making it virtually inconceivable that you’ll get rid of us any other way). And as much as you all love to bleat about how tolerant you are, we’ve always been a lot more willing to coexist with you than you have with us.
Matt:
I’ve never been spat upon for my beliefs, but I have been the victim of vandalism and threats of violence. The threats of violence always seem to include the word “fag”, although I am neither gay nor even effeminate.
You say you’re willing to coexist with us, but we don’t try to tell you who you can and can’t marry. Simple disagreement and outright bigotry are very different things, and that is very likely why people spit on you. Notice that these angry liberals merely spit, they do not wipe you from the face of the earth, even when you are unarmed.
Why are right-wingers complaining about the “liberal media bias”, speciously quantified above at 71%? If you were being held out of power unfairly, seek redress. But when you run the whole damn show, and advance control in each election, why do you still see yourselves as the sad and helples victims of liberal conspiracy? Poor little victims, being mocked and insulted all the way to the Oval Office.
The level of self-pity on this board is suffocating. Is it too hard to stand up and take some responsibility for your own actions, instead of justifying everything as revenge against unfair, patronizing and elitist “liberals”?
What a bunch of girly-men.
Who I can and can’t marry comes down to a question of finding a person of the applicable sex willing to accept a proposal…and considering the political climate where I live, that’s probably going to require moving…which I don’t want to do, and so I’ll probably spend the rest of my life single and largely celibate. What the hell marriage has to do with your argument, though, I don’t know…since I’ve never tried to tell you or anyone else who you could or should marry.
For the record, my general opinion on the subject of marriage is that it was a bad idea to ever make it the government’s business to begin with. Some things do not belong in the political sphere, and marriage is at the top of the list. (But then, which side of the aisle is always yammering about how “the personal is political”?)
Hey, California went something like 45% Bush.
Matt:
Perhaps you are not a bigot, but you voted for one. Nice job.
Perhaps Philip should visit the Bible belt a bit more. Every other car has a bumper sticker with Bush/Cheney or W on it.
Bryon: you may already know this, but that list of IQs by red and blue states is phony. IQ data by state doesn’t even seem to be available, but that link does have a list of 8th grade test scores correlated with voting patterns, and it seems pretty much random.
The only thing I have to add is that a study by the Program on International Policy Attitudes shows that the beliefs of Bush supporters on some very important issues are at odds with reality:
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/Report10_21_04.pdf
The conclusion (given by the researchers) is that Bush supporters cling to beliefs that have been “visibly refuted” because 1) the Bush administration continues to confirm those (incorrect) beliefs, and/or 2) Bush supporters “suppress awareness of unsettling information.”
Wow.
Having voted for Kerry, I can honestly say that his campaign and its message seemed wooden and hollow to me. I tried to get excited about his speeches, but I could almost feel the energy being drained from the room’s audience as he droned on – and I was only watching on TV!
Many of Kerry’s ideas were good starters, but he did little to get advance them beyond a posture and to get specific details out to the people (beyond pointing them to web sites containing policy details). News from the front – you have to connect with real people, and that means explaining in some detail what you stand for and what exactly you plan on doing, face-to-face. The majority does not yet connect to the national debate through the internet.
Bill Clinton was expert at this kind of personal connection to his audience. This kind of charisma just isn’t in Kerry’s repertoire, no offense to him. However, his campaign should have moved more “meat” into his standard stump speeches to get people discussing the real war and economic issues – not dead-letter office stories about Vietnam service, not social distractions like gay marriage.
Kerry never forced Bush to alter or reconsider his stance on a single issue during the campaign. As maddening as this may make Bush appear to individual Americans who happen to value personal reflection as a necessary component of maturity, it is sadly true that a majority of people in the U.S. viewed such consistency as an expression of “good values” and voted for the candidate whose “values” they could readily understand.
McRutter.
The whining of us conservatives in blue areas is nothing compared the circle-jerks of self pity happening among blue state liberals, who live in baffled incomprehension of our country’s red majority, accusing those who disagree with them of being ignorant bible-thumpers. We just did stand up. We walked the walk and got our man elected. All of the energy and bile spent by the left-wing bloglings in accusing Bush and his supporters of being ignorant war-mongers should have been spent in mobilizing Ohio liberals.
-j
As a fiscally conservative liberal it was difficult for me to vote for Kerry but a lot easier than voting for the Prez, who has currently run a huge deficit, and plans on invading my privacy by passing laws dictating who I can and cannot marry and whether or not I have a choice regarding what grows inside of my body. It always seems ironic that the party which is pro-gun is anti-choice. As a woman I am always going to vote on the latter over the former. While I respect republicans and I never spit on people, I also avoid discussing politics with Bush supporter because I get too emotional and disrespectful. This is because I feel threatened by Bush, I feel my rights, my privacy, my liberties and my finances are all in jeopardy with this man at our helm. I agree that Kerry could not do much better but I doubt any one could do worse. Under Bush we have increased the deficit, been attacked on our own soil, made more enemies than ever, the economy has gotten worse, unemployment is higher than ever, more inroad against Roe vs Wade have been made, Citizens have lost more liberties than ever under the Patriot Act. The government can now hold you forever with out pressing charges – all they have to do is suspect you of terrorism. So far, the only argument Bush supporters on this forum have made (and I appreciate your dialogue) is that Bush is better than Kerry and he supports Gun choice. Oh, and that you feel liberals disrespect you but I think it has been pointed out that both sides seem to equally disrespect each other.
John,
I honestly believe that you and your ‘country’s red majority’ have gotten horribly fooled by your candidate. While you may not admit it, fear of the unknown is the primary means that has been used to gather you around your shepard. I am afraid the the middle-state/middle class is just about to get their pockets picked, even though they will not realize it for a few years (think national sales tax, privatized retirement funds and continued corporate welfare)
It is difficult to develop contrary arguments to a bunch of name-calling and lies that are repeatedly hurled by the ‘country’s red majority’, however that is what the Democrats will need to do, and their candidate (much like Bill Clinton) will need to be able to do this without looking like he just came out of a bar fight.
Now I know that you will call the liberals the name callers (typical bully tactics) and disclaim your fears (even though you choose a platform that harkens back to the 19th century), but I want you to go find a warm happy place and take the time to really analyze the situation that we are in… A looming deficeit, weak economic recovery and a miasmic war front with no end in sight. This is the situation that the ‘red leader’ has brought us to, and this is a preferable position to you than dealing with a changing social, economic and geopolitical situation that the country is facing.
It all seems pretty childish
If recovery has to look like 1999 before you all will stop calling it “weak”, then I guess we’ll just have to settle in for a lifetime of weakness.
It’d be nice to see a government that didn’t spend us into the poorhouse, but frankly a choice between Democrats and Republicans on that score is like being offered the choice of getting beaten to death with a wooden rod or a steel one. Either way, the ending is going to be bad, and the path is going to be no picnic either.
I voted Libertarian this year without regret. But of the major parties, I’ll settle for the candidate who’s finally willing to admit that Social Security as presently constituted is a massive scam that’s going to bankrupt us all if it’s not fixed _immediately_.
Don’t be surprised, Phil, why would you find America-lovin’ Bush supporters in some foreen country? Heck, they oughta round up everyone with a passport and tag ’em under the PATRIOT act as “agents of a foreign power” because by gum this sort of checking on people outside the US sounds dirty to me. “Exit” poll sounds just about right from OUR good ol’ Jesusland, err, U. S. A. !!!!
This has to be irony. Mexico and the US are different countries. Polls in the US reveal substantial support for Bush. In the rest of the world they overwhelmingly do not. So for supporting Bush to be like consuming porn (Internet or otherwise) you’d have to conduct your survey in the US and get the same results.
The Flying Nun
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