13 thoughts on “Icon A5 review with shopping video”

  1. I think you are portraying the Icon at its worst, specification-wise. 430 pounds payload is for the amphibian with automatic folding wings. If you go for the pure seaplane version with manual folding wings, you save 100 pounds, which makes it much more reasonable to go fly with a friend. And save on insurance premiums.

    If I had a job to do in Alaska, I’d pick the 30yo XP Hawk on floats too, but If I wanted to go for a quick local fly on a nice summer’s day with a friend and just enjoying flying, the Icon would be my choice.

    Different aircraft for different missions, one is not “better” than the other. The review should reflect that; focus on what it can do, not on what it doesn’t or how much it costs.

  2. Bas: It isn’t 430 lbs. of payload. It is 420 lbs. of USEFUL LOAD. “Payload” is the capacity of the aircraft to carry weight other than fuel. If the Icon A5 goes out the door with its pre-certification advertised payload it will be the first product in the history of aviation to do so. The pure seaplane version won’t deliver the versatility that Icon is selling. Folks who forgo the automatic wing folding will presumably consume nearly the same amount of weight by ordering avionics or other options. If the typical Icon leaves the factory with more than 320 lbs. of payload I will be shocked.

  3. I enjoyed the “Shopping for an Icon A5” video. For me, it parallels the cult-like following of the Icon A5 with the iPhone. Like the iPhone, the Icon A5 might not make a lot of sense on paper, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be hugely successful. The beauty is in the design. If you’re going to compare usefulness of airplanes solely by their specifications, then I’m going to assume you probably drive a minivan rather than a Corvette. I applaud Icon for taking a risk by recognizing that not all pilots are on a mission. Some of us want to have fun.

  4. ssseth: I do like driving a minivan rather than a Corvette! But I hope you didn’t perceive the Icon review as negative. I think what they’re doing is great, assuming the airplane flies well 100 lbs. over gross. I personally would rather have an Icon than a 30-year-old Cessna on floats. As I think I’ve said before, no airplane can compare in usefulness to a Honda Accord.

  5. “But I hope you didn’t perceive the Icon review as negative.”

    I did. The conclusion of nearly each section was negative. Overhyped specs, dangerous, compares poorly vs. ancient options, poor business plan.

    “I think what they’re doing is great”

    Then you might have said so. If that was a positive review, I wonder what a negative one looks like. How ’bout a Moller Air Car review?

  7. I’d much rather buy a Searey LSX. Looking at the NTSB reports for the Searey I found

    1 accident with both occupants uninjured
    2 accidents with minor injuries to both occupants
    2 accidents with serious injury to the sole occupant

    According to the NTSB records no one’s been killed in a Searey for making that mistake. I credit the dual sliding canopies as also making it easier to escape if the aircraft flips, unlike a large single canopy such as the A5 (or the dangerous canopy on the Seawind–what if you flip in shallow water and can’t get out?). It’s also a tested design that has undergone four different design refinement stages (A, B, C hulls and now the LSX which is greatly improved over the original). Useful load’s better too, 540 lbs with 912S.

  8. Oops, I meant NTSB reports of accidents where a Searey was landed on water with the gear extended.

    And you can build one as a kit and save a great deal of money over the Icon. I first saw the Icon on display at Oshkosh 2008 and thought it looked pretty, but I still prefer the practicality of the Searey.

  9. Am new to GA/Sport Pilot, but what I see Icon doing is marketing brilliance. They appear to be the first to step out of the paradigm of the other GA aircraft manufacturers who’s market focus is primarily at hangars, airports and flying events (Oshkosh/Sun n Fun).

    Puzzled as to how come they have not been focusing on the masses that just want to fly for the experience, fun, excitement and pleasure of the activity. If motorcycle and motorboat manufactures followed the current format of the GA industry, there would be about as many people invovled in those activities as GA.

    As I think about it, I realize that that the majority of my friends are pretty much as I have been and have no clue about GA and flying except its for those who want to be pilots. I don’t want to be a pilot. I want to become proficient and trained enough to someday have my on LSA and be able, as a hobby, enjoys the “experience” of flying safely. No desire to become a pilot.

    Sort of like many of friends and myself who all have touring motorcycles that we enjoy as a hobby, touring and enjoying the freedom of riding and are actually cautious and well trained for safety. We are not motorcycle riders though.

    Great job Icon. You are awaking a mass of people thats curiosity has never been pricked to take a closer look at flying and GA.

    PS Don’t misunderstand. I would never be so gullible to put money down on something that may not even be available for some time or have a track record of safety. Just making a point that some current GA manufactures that have been around for a while might want to take notice.

  10. Philip: Agreed, it is unlikely to make its advertised empty weight. I am now also confused because in the April 2010 issue of Sport Aviation, Icon says they are telling customers they can’t have the landing gear and the automatic folding wings. So it is a bit hard to tell exactly what you can save with which options.

    In any case, their main LSA competition right now seems to be the Cessna 162, which also only has 490 pound useful load, making it quite useless for two average sized males.

    Doesn’t stop that one from selling like hot cakes, though.

  11. Bas: PiperSport seems to be jumpstarted ahead of the game of Cessna’s skycatcher. They are the first current manufacture I have seen, to be gravitating slowly away from the normal paradigm in GA marketing. They already have over 11,500 fans on the PiperSport FaceBook page (which I find quite impressive) and a lot of momentum and looks like they will be the leader in moving LSA. It appears to be right on the mark, with the appearance of “safe, fun and sharp/modern”.

  12. Stan: that is the initial impression, but I recently read comment by Piper themselves saying they are expecting only a few dozen sales a year. In contrast the SkyCatcher has 4-figure order numbers. Once they start production in earnest, I imagine seeing a lot of them on a ramp near you real soon.

    I wonder if many people are put off by the fact that the Piper Sport wasn’t designed by Piper, where as the Cessna is a “real” Cessna. I also wonder if Cirrus are kicking themselves for abandoning their LSA project after seeing Cessna’s sales!

    I currently own an Evektor SportStar, which gives me 440 lbs. full-fuel (4 hours) payload. The Piper Sport is close to that as well (lower full-fuel payload, but more fuel) and should one of the students bend my aircraft, I would likely take the insurance cheque to Piper; they have a great offering.

  13. The marketing of the Icon is great. It’s slick and sexy. Take one for a flight…if you can and ask for a realistic delivery date. Then fly the Searey LSX. I have 4 years in my Searey and just flew the latest model (LSX) and they not only can actually fly two adults without going over gross, but they have already shipped 500 Seareys and have been building and refining them for over 10 years.

    So you can fly a new plane that has 10s of thousands of hours experience on the fleet now, vs vaporplane that won’t be able to have folding wings or be amphibious without going over max weight with two adults. And costs 2x as much. And is untested by everyday pilots in the fields. You can have one built $50K cheaper than the Icon or assemble it yourself and be 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the Icon. No, I have zero monetary interest in the factory but I do follow any new seaplane coming to market. Ask the makers of the Searey how many LSXs they have sold with this recession vs other light sport manufacturers. Ask the community of Searey fliers about the plane. If I had deep pockets, I might own an Icon – but I would certainly own a Searey LSX.

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