Peter the Great: His Life and World says that “What [William III] most disliked about the English was what he regarded as their naïve disregard of their own long-term interests and their selfish lack of concern about what happened to Europe.”
Perhaps things haven’t changed that much since 1700…
I am happy we have returned to our care-free little islander ways.
Caring about Europe led us to allying with France to stop German ascendancy. Or in other words WWI and WWII. Why were we so concerned with Europe? To protect our long-term interests: we couldn’t let Fritz take-over Europe or the Empire would be next!
All told, such concerns brought us and Europe great misery. Death, debt and humiliation (think Suez). And the Aristocratic and political classes lost their oh so important colonial possessions anyway.
Yes, once upon a time we helped stop Napoleon. But even with that the biggest gain was naval supremacy that allowed us to to go freely about the world and not be overly bothered with Europe.
No, getting out of the ‘long term-interest’ and ‘concern for Europe’ game is the best thing we have done in a while. There will be ups and downs. Tough times and good times. But I suspect we will now, as in the past, fare much better when we stop worrying about the kind of ‘long-term interests’ that statesmen like William III worry about and stop trying to meddle with European affairs like some great continental power.
We are peripheral to Europe and cannot have the impact the egotistical members of our nation think we can. We can make waves and cause trouble, but we do so at great annoyance to everyone and at a cost we are never happy to pay.
Just look at the entire history of our EEC and EU involvement. No matter what happened, good or bad, we always had to be fighting, arguing with and attacking the Europeans. We get a rebate on financial contributions – which is about as pleasant a negotiation as you can have! – and its not an example of successful compromise by our European partners, but a war won against the devilish European enemies.
All in all its better and healthier to accept the national temperament for what it is and move on. Hopefully, once the Brexit negotiations are done we can all move on to a more productive coexistence.
Yes, that wonderful age when the English ignored European politics and just kept to themselves … wait, when was this?
England has been allied, conquered by, has conquered, and been at war with European nations since the days of the Roman Empire, and possibly long before that. In the last three centuries (when it was ‘not overly bothered with Europe’ according to a previous poster), it has been very energetic about sharing these European traditions in other parts of the world.
Switzerland can reasonably claim a history of splendid isolation; Any English claims to this are laughable.
Michiel, I agree with you.
“Switzerland can reasonably claim a history of splendid isolation”
Yes, Switzerland has tread a good path.
It is probably for the best that we are moving more in their direction. I have certainly never seen a nation becoming more like Switzerland and thought they were making a mistake.
I also agree with your point that the United Kingdom, and its predecessor states, are often involved in the affairs of Europe and that it is often very disagreeable to those on all sides. Indeed, that was a big part of my complaint! I didn’t want to overdo the point, but perhaps I instead undercooked it.
There is a tension within Britain as regards Europe. I find ordinary folk want to live and let live: don’t interfere and don’t be interfered with. It certainly seems William III, with his “…naïve disregard of their own long-term interests and their selfish lack of concern about what happened to Europe.” was unimpressed with this attitude.
Which brings us to the elite who tend to want more of the European power politics and war. From William III through to the entirety – or so it seems – of the modern elite this seems to be the preferred option.
So, I agree, Michiel, that as you say, we have been too often involved in Europe and it has often been a torrid tale of wars.
But, when have we been strongest? When we have reduced our role in Europe and tended to other affairs. Seeing Europe as important (and hopefully friendly), but not something we interfere in or make schemes about.
Sadly, whilst we often prosper when less directly and intimately involved in Europe our ruling classes have been known* to use that strength to screw around with entirely different parts of the world. This is normally less harmful to the United Kingdom than our European adventures, but it has caused much sadness around the world.
So, again, lets hope we become more like Switzerland and don’t go down some crazy Empire building route. Thankfully, I don’t think we are even in a position to make that mistake again.
Again, great comment Michiel, I agree with your facts and sentiments, but I am looking at things from a slightly different angle. Perhaps I need to adjust that angle to something closer to yours. Either way, I don’t know if you can understand my position better now – or can even accept some of it, but I hope it does not seem ‘laughable’ to you.
* Gaining the naval supremacy to be free of invasion from Europe and then using it to get involved in places like India might very well have suited those with hands on the levers of power (and finance!), but it was not so good for ordinary folk either here or, I believe, in the conquered lands. And it is they that are closest to my heart.
I suspect North Americans are more concerned about Britain’s feelings for Europe than Britain’s own!