Part of an email to family members from a PhD. in physical chemistry (like Angela Merkel!):
The mRNA vaccines (Moderna & Pfizer/Biontech) or viral-vector (vv) DNA vaccines (J&J, AZ/Oxford, Russian Sputnik vaccine, some Chinese vaccines) absolutely do inject foreign genetic material into our bodies and cells to produce the spike protein. Calling them a giant ‘genetic engineering’ experiment on tens of millions of people is appropriate and honest in my opinion, even if the manufacturers, governments and press don’t use that terminology for fear of a backlash against these vaccines. They are deliberately ignoring these scientific long-term questions, and would rather ‘sell us the vaccines’, due to their compelling short-term benefit-to-risk ratio, then call them a large-scale genetic engineering experiment on humans – but that’s what they are. (The AZ/Oxford and J&J vv-DNA vaccines use adenoviruses: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenoviridae, with double-stranded DNA genomes).
I just wish some traditional vaccines were available today that use attenuated, non-viable SARS-CoV-2 virus itself to product the spike protein antigens so that my immune system can get trained! That would be so much less risky than injected mRNA or DNA into my body and cells, and hoping that this massive genetic engineering experiment on tens of millions of humans will not have any ‘off-target toxicities’, like the CRISPR genetic engineering experiments, which last years were shown to have fundamentally inevitable off-target affects in an inherently interactive 3D genome.
Another vaccine strategy would be to inject expressed spike proteins, if we can protect them from immediate degradation, rather than mRNA or DNA genetic code, as that would dramatically reduce the plausible, but unproven threat of genetic engineering on our germline, immune system or somatic cells. Note that neither of these vaccination strategies would prevent an immune overreaction with potentially increased autoimmune disease.
He recommends that anyone who has ever tested positive for COVID-19 and/or who has had a positive antibody test try to avoid getting stuck with the as-yet-unproven high tech vaccines. I’m not sure that this is practical given that governments may not allow the unvaccinated to leave their houses (but they’ll still be “free” to watch Netflix and Disney+). A more practical approach might to be travel to a country where one of the old-tech Chinese-developed vaccines is available. “Covid: What do we know about China’s coronavirus vaccines?” (BBC, January 14):
The Beijing-based biopharmaceutical company Sinovac is behind the CoronaVac, an inactivated vaccine. It works by using killed viral particles to expose the body’s immune system to the virus without risking a serious disease response.
By comparison the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines being developed in the West are mRNA vaccines. This means part of the coronavirus’ genetic code is injected into the body, triggering the body to begin making viral proteins, but not the whole virus, which is enough to train the immune system to attack. “CoronaVac is a more traditional method [of vaccine] that is successfully used in many well known vaccines like rabies,” Associate Prof Luo Dahai of the Nanyang Technological University told the BBC. “mRNA vaccines are a new type of vaccine and there is [currently] no successful example [of them] being used in the population,” Prof Luo adds.
Sinopharm, a Chinese state-owned company, is developing two Covid-19 vaccines, which, like Sinovac are also inactivated vaccines that work in a similar way.
Where to go? How about Dubai?
However, the United Arab Emirates, which approved a Sinopharm vaccine earlier this month, said the vaccine was 86% effective, according to interim results of its phase three trial.
Tried-and-true method Chinese vaccines are also approved in Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine, Hungary, the Philippines, and Indonesia.
Here’s your hotel in Turkey… (from a 2007 trip to Cappadocia):
(Turkey is open to Americans with a negative PCR test taken 72 hours prior.)
Related:
Sure, I’d love to visit Turkey, but I think USA medicine is a bit more up to date (no figs on this though!). “as-yet-unproven high tech vaccines” — at this point, they seem quite proven to not have COVID-19 kill you in most cases (and keep you out of the hospital, and allow you to start to go anywhere with more ease, which is good enough for me). Sure, there are going to be side-effects. Hopefully most are short-term and not serious.
If this is an effective way to avoid all the shutdowns and stay-at-home craziness, don’t you welcome it?
Now, maybe if you’re younger and have more concerns about long-term health issues, you might be more hesitant, but then again, long-term damage from a bad case of COVID-19 (even in younger people) seems worse than anything we’ve seen so far from any of the vaccines, other than an occasional allergic reaction, which might well happen with any medication. Anyway, Mass (and worldwide) mass “trials” in progress… 😉
Also: https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/five-things-you-need-know-about-mrna-vaccine-safety.html
And the mRNA stuff is nothing new, just needed that last 5% to get something workable: https://nypost.com/2020/12/05/this-scientists-decades-of-mrna-research-led-to-covid-vaccines/
A comparison: https://www.healthcareitnews.com/news/emea/four-types-covid-19-vaccine-snapshot
P.S. I am all for having everyone stay home and watch more Netflix, etc! Of course, this is because I work in the TV & film production business [VFX/SFX]. 😉
With all due respect, you haven’t done your homework as regards adverse events that happen after people have received the mRNA products. Please visit VAERS.com. It is a government (USA) passive reporting system that accumulates “adverse events” (including death) sustained after being injected with a lot of different types of vaccines, not just the new mRNA Covid-19 products. The website itself states that it is estimated that the vast majority of vaccine related adverse events NEVER get reported. Of course, the site also maintains that there is no direct connection between the vaccines and adverse events reported by those after receiving a particular vaccine. So, people should read, or know these statistics, and then decide for themselves if there is a connection.
Regarding genetic engineering, I define it as change in target RNA or DNA. Do Pfizer/Moderna and Sputnik change cellular DNA or RNA of an injectee? “inject foreign genetic material into our bodies and cells to produce the spike protein. ” is too vague for a genetics layman as myself. Coronavirus or any virus infection is injection of foreign genetic material in itself.
From what I read Pfizer and Moderna “vaccines” can be considered form of gene therapy and essentially make human body cells producing coronavirus antibodies. Supposedly Moderna has never gotten any drug approved (even partially) because on the long term their animal experiments failed (in 2015?) So covid19 “vaccine” is their first treatment ever. Did not find anything on Sputnik. I still do not have good understanding of how these treatments work and what happens in human cells and for cell reproduction, how cell DNA/RNA is affected. Does not look that anyone knows but it would be nice to hear out an unbiased geneticist / specialist point of view. Does anyone can point to such a resource who speaks to regular joe with high school notion of genetics?
> Where to go?
But why not to China itself?
Just go to the non-GMO section of the vaccine store.
The idea that people have to take this is ridiculous. One in ten ‘Americans’ is an illegal immigrant but somehow they are going to track and detain the non-vaxxed. No way, they just make people want it, for the people that ignore it nothing changes.
That so many people all up in arms to get an experimental vaccine for a disease that only kills .2% of the most unhealthy people is sad. I’ll miss some of them but suicide by modern medicine is a personal choice.
In my personal FB feed, every day there is a video from — GREAT BARRINGTON NY by someone I don’t know. It’s a “sponsored link” showing a video of elderly women in GBNY getting their shot.
The interesting thing is: Click the little vertical “. . .” and guess what? You cannot mute it, you can’t hide it, you can’t do NUTHIN. You are COMPELLED by Facebook to watch it.
BTW the chick you can’t uninvite to your party on FB is Dorinda Medley, who is an influencer and a “public personality.” You apparently have to go to great lengths to prevent Dorinda from stuffing your goose.
Yeah, but if you don’t do this, you’re a #Science denier, an insurrectionist and a “depraved indifference” thought criminal and therefore not even really a human being. Too late for me now. I know what your friend is describing beforehand, but if you post that on Facebook the Thought Police will flag you and say you’re a member of Qanon.
Yesterday before I got my shot, looking at the paper forms piling up in the bin where the RNs take them out and call your name, one for Moderna, one for Pfizer, I was thinking about the genetic consequences of what I was about to do. One of the town cops kept pacing back and forth in front of me, apparently scanning to keeping a lookout for anyone who might be trying to burst in through the back door of the Armory and steal their hoard of valuable genetic engineering material.
I asked him about the age of the building because I was interested in the architecture (incredibly well-made vaulted wood ceilings and handcrafted wood flooring, ca. 1930-40) and he recounted his family’s history with the place, the National Guard, etc. It turns out that he knew it pretty well. So then I said: “It’s amazing isn’t it? Those woodworkers were really proud of the place. If this shot turns me into Caitlyn Jenner, I guess I’ll have to move to LA and start a reality TV show about my transformation, assuming I survive.” [Laughs]
>> I’m not sure that this is practical given that governments may not allow the unvaccinated to leave their houses (but they’ll still be “free” to watch Netflix and Disney+). A more practical approach might to be travel to a country where one of the old-tech Chinese-developed vaccines is available.
I am not sure how well this “getting a Chinese-developed vaccine so that governments would let me out” strategy would work. In order for governments to let people out after vaccination, the people would have to be vaccinated by vaccines that are deemed acceptable by the governments in question. For example, in order for the US government and/or any US company to deem a person to have been vaccinated, and therefore safe to go outside and to work, that person would probably have to be given a vaccine deemed acceptable by the US government. As far as I know, the US government has not certified or deemed acceptable any COVID vaccine made by China. Therefore, getting a Chinese COVID vaccine probably would not do much good from a legal/bureaucratic standpoint.
I am sure Israel, which used mRNA vaccines, will gives us all the info we need about long term whatever! I was a Zionist before, and even more so now!
“Long term” could long after COVID is forgotten…
This was, I have to say, a reasonably ignorant post. mRNA vaccines are not “genetic engineering” your cells. They deliver little messages (mRNAs) to your cells, which then crank out the viral spike proteins, which the immune system seems and develops antibodies to. The mRNA is shockingly delicate, and gets rapidly degraded. There are some tricks to making the mRNA stable enough, and to getting it into the cells, but they’re not scary tricks. The mRNA does not persist, it cannot become DNA, so cannot enter the genome, cannot contaminate the germ line. It is very difficult to even imagine how it could have bad long-term effects.