On a recent trip to Denver, I rented a $550/week “full size” car from Hertz and received a 2021 Subaru Outback station wagon. As part of the Great Falling Apart of the U.S. service industry, the vehicle was delivered only 3/4 full of gasoline. The 4-cylinder engine made alarming strained noises when pushed hard enough to merge onto I-25 (even accelerating from 0 to 35 mph on a local road sounded like it was a dramatic event for the vehicle’s innards). This is not the refined 6-cylinder powerplant of our beloved Honda Odyssey.
There is a huge touch screen in the middle of the car and, as with Tesla, a lot of essential buttons are available only within the touch screen, typically at least one or two menu touches away. Apple CarPlay is slow to establish compared to how it works on the Honda Odyssey and the entire infotainment system seems slow.
The lane departure warning system is much more active than on the Honda and generates a lot of spurious warnings, e.g., when merging onto a highway from a ramp.
Who buys these cars rather than a Honda or a Toyota?
Here’s the vehicle on I-70:
Speaking of vehicles, here’s a Ford in Idaho Springs that probably doesn’t generate any complaints regarding the touch screen or lane departure warning system:
and another Ford truck, from Beaver Liquors (near Beaver Creek), delivering supplies deemed “essential” by Colorado Covidcrats.
Of course, it is also possible to take a bus. Note the four mask-related signs in this photo of a single public transit vehicle (Vail Lionshead village):
philg – you should have asked for V6!
consolidating everything onto the touch screen looks cool until the touch screen goes dark and requires a dealership visit. Specs say this is 3600 pounds vehicle with 182 hp so the 4 cylinder is doing a lot of work. It’s also possible that the is simulated engine noise for the “outback” enthusiast. That said given the photo, the AWD looks very useful.
@Paul: AWD plus high ground clearance plus relatively low CG from boxer engine are great in snow, particularly with good tires. 182 HP in 3600 lb vehicle + 5,280 ft elevation + CVT = sluggish and strained performance with an abused CVT esp.
Orange Subaru crossovers are the official car of rich single mothers in the Oakland hills, safely isolated from the rabble while they complain about the rabble not getting entitlements & men not winning the child support bread. $550/week sounds like a good price compared to a few months ago.
Subarus have such a loyal following they sell every single vehicle they produce. The stereotypical buyer is apparently either a crunchy granola outdoorsy type or a lesbian:
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/06/how-subarus-came-to-be-seen-as-cars-for-lesbians/488042/
I’m sorry and surprised to hear about that 2021 Outback and the “alarming strained noises.” It has a Continuously Variable transmission and the 4-cylinder model is rated at 182 horsepower, which is a far cry from the 280 hp V-6 you’re used to in the Odyssey. Still, I’m surprised it was making “alarming strained noises” when merging. Our 2011 doesn’t do that, and neither did our 2008. It’s no fireball but it doesn’t feel strained or underpowered.
It sounds like something is wrong with the CVT on that car. It uses a system with hydraulically operated pulleys connected by a linked steel belt. The sides of the pulleys are driven closer together or farther apart by the transmission and engine control computers to infinitely vary the gear ratio as the steel belt transmits power between them.
This is in the mountains of Colorado, and Denver is the “Mile High City.” It’s a naturally-aspirated engine and Denver’s elevation means that its making considerably less power than at sea level. If you factor in 3% power loss per 1000 feet of altitude, that 182 hp engine is down to 153 hp. Now tick off another 2-3% for lower energy winter blend fuel and you’re under 150 hp.
Now the kicker: some people I know who have Outbacks (or rent them) attempt to do very silly things like load them up with more gear, people and luggage than they are rated to carry, and then tow a trailer that may be too heavy for the car, up and down the mountains to ski and and have fun. I’m not saying this is you: I’m talking about knuckleheads. I know a guy who bought one and he said that he wanted to put a lift kit on it and go sand racing with an otherwise stock drivetrain because he was so excited to finally have a four wheel drive. I told him point blank: “Kiss your CVT goodbye.”
They also try to wring the most out of the engine in those circumstances. This is a rental car and I suspect that transmission has been abused, and is slipping. Engine braking on downhills is also affected. Overloaded cars or people trying to engine brake with overloaded vehicles for long periods of time and you compound the problem.
Bottom line: 150 horsepower cars with CVTs in the mountains of Colorado don’t make sense particularly when they get rented to people who don’t care if they abuse them. Next time get the Turbo/more powerful variants. It will never be as good as a V6 Odyssey engine, which is basically a jewel.
And you know you can’t fix stupid when it comes to poor UI design, slow processors and dumb programmers! Lol.
Who drives them? My 70+ year old mother loves hers. She despises driving on the highway, she rarely goes above 60 mph, the mountains around me are hillocks by comparison to Colorado, she is only about 5’4 and loves the slightly “cramped” interior of the Outback, and thinks the AWD is absolutely delightful along with the rear hatch. She wouldn’t drive anything else.
@Philg: Also inre: Who buys them? Deplorables with limited spending power. Our 2011 Outback was purchased for $7,500 and took around $1,250 more to make very reliable and roadworthy. It has north of 135,000 miles on the clock but looks great and drives beautifully now (at least according to my 70+ year old mom.)
A good Odyssey from that vintage would cost around $15 grand. We can’t afford one of them right now but I’m sure she’d like it.
I’m going to be in Denver, and I was looking to add couple days of skiing at the end of my trip. But prices for accommodations at resorts are such that I decided that I’ll be fine skiing in Seattle with my pass. On top of that there are logistics of bringing equipment…
A useful and entertaining review. Well done!
My impression is that Subaru is sort of a cult vehicle, like Saab used to be before GM bought and ruined it.
I don’t see many in the Bay Area, but they seem more popular where it snows.
Who buys these cars rather than a Honda or a Toyota? Anyone that wants 4WD or lives in the snow.
TS: Does Subaru have better 4WD than a Honda or Toyota? Honda has the Passport, right? And Toyota has the RAV4 that is comparable in size to the Subaru?
@philg: The RAV4 seems to be accelerating in terms of sales here in CO (modulo supply chain issues). A friend just bought one, we took it for a day ski trip. Very impressive – good acceleration and speed up I70, plenty of room, and surprisingly quiet. And no CVT.
@Philg: I don’t know whether it is better, but it is very fully “mature” system that Subaru has refined for decades now. Some of their new models are very good off road with all the software.
However it has eight CV joints plus associated differentials and the main driveshaft. Much of that reciprocating mass and rotating parts/bearings and the power loss through the gears could disappear with electric motors…I haven’t seen a head-to-head comparison. It would be interesting!
Alex: Toyota’s RAV4 Hybrid accomplishes the AWD by having an electric motor for the back wheels. That has to cut out a lot of complexity!
@Philg: Honda and Toyota make great cars and Toyota also makes great pickup trucks. I can’t say anything bad about their engineering. Toyota == Reliable and Honda == “Somehow just better than it should be.” I hope that’s still true. I wish American auto manufacturers hadn’t lost the tune, so to speak. Ford should have continued the Escape Hybrid I drive for another several years, refining it even more, because it’s like a Fordonda to me, but they succumbed to Eurofever from 2013-2020 on the Escape Hybrid and did not recover (a little) until 2021 with a smaller vehicle. The 2013-2020s were maintenance nightmares. Need to replace a flap inside the AC/Heater box? That’ll be $1200 for a NEW SEALED unit, remove both front doors, most of the front interior, the dashboard, and pay around $1500 for labor. Crazytown!
Phil, every Subaru except for the BRZ (which is actually a Toyota) comes with 4 wheel drive. Toyotas and Hondas have some models with 4 wheel drive available as an option. I am not sure if Subarus have better 4 wheel drive but the brand is known for it. It is very hard to find a 2 wheel drive Subaru.
A lot of cars have touch-screen disease. I would like a car radio that I can turn off quickly, if I get a phone call, police stop, or other interruption. Unfortunately many car radios cannot be turned off easily.
@Roger: sqrt(-1) to that. It’s why I like the small-but-still working Microsoft SYNC/NAV infotainment system in my ’10 Ford Escape Hybrid. Need to kill the volume? Reach right out and turn a KNOB or hit a button on the steering wheel with your thumb. Shut the display off with one more button press.
The screen is small by today’s standards (I think 6.5 inch) but I think it still well-designed. The radio and NAV are where they should be. It has bluetooth, there’s a USB port for external devices. Sirius Satellite compatible. The NAV, GPS and voice recognition work. And the damn thing makes sense – the turn signals are on a stalk, where God intended them to be. It has (knock wood) not faltered on me down to -10 deg. F and well over 125 deg. F.
Need to answer the phone? Push the button on the steering wheel. Bluetooth does the rest.
Need to make a phone call? Push the other button on the steering wheel, wait for the beep, say: “Phone.” Wait for the beep, say: “Call Pelosi.” Everything happens over the car’s 7 speaker stereo and microphone. Presumably she was in Obama’s contact list – he leased a 2009 Escape Hybrid Limited, I believe.
But you never touch the central screen to do something absolutely ordinary like spritzing the windshield washers.
We’ve gone too far! I hope we left breadcrumbs so we can find our way back home!
Page 5 of 15 shows the unit:
http://pa.motorwebs.com/ford/canada/pdf/brochures/escape.pdf
It has no lane-keeping assistance, but it does have a self-parallel-park and a backup camera. The rest of “driving” is your responsibility. I’m not saying something better isn’t possible, but this system was very very good.
Where did you go skiing and how was it? 🙂
Subaru’s seem to be the most popular ski cars in Colorado, followed by either Audis or pickup trucks.
Some metrics worth mentioning:
base MSRP / MPG
Honda Odyssey: $33,040 / 19/28 – 4WD not available
Subaru Outback: $26,945 / 26/33
Also, just briefly, all this “touch the screen” stuff is undoubtedly cheaper from a manufacturing point of view: no switches to engineer, manufacture, keep in the parts inventory, etc. Some Jedi mind control has convinced the auto. manufacturers that they’ll save money AND have a better “user experience” by converging it all into the central screen but I deeply disagree with it. Now it has become a religion instead of a feature. Tactile switches, knobs and buttons aren’t accessories or jewelry to me and I don’t enjoy using touchscreens – even big ones – for those features.
The automakers are doing this for lots of reasons, one of which is to “nudge” everyone into the self-driving car version of the future where you are no longer a driver. And a little later than that you will not even own the car.
And they save money building these things this way, but they’re all jumping the gun and I really abhor it. I think Tesla dashboards and the entire UI for on their cars is a nauseating insult, and I’ve driven a recent Model S. I hate the interior with a passion. I said to the person who owns it: “The 1983 Chevy Chevette Diesel S had a better dashboard than this piece of chit.”
http://davidsclassiccars.com/images/full/1983-chevrolet-chevette-s-diesel-18l-ss-7.jpg
One more anecdote… We have an ’09 Honda and an ’11 Subaru, both bought new. The Honda has about 200k miles and the only out of the ordinary repair it has needed was a new starter motor. The Subaru has half as many miles but has needed three major repairs: head gasket, CVT transmission, and suspension. The Subaru dealer was beyond fair and covered the head gasket and CVT under warranty even though I was technically out of warranty (I was under on miles, but over on time). The Honda dealer has treated my wife so poorly that she refused to take her car there after her third visit.
I have no idea if my experience is representative of the average person’s. For me, it means I don’t plan to buy another Subaru, but I’ve learned to appreciate a quality dealer and will definitely consider the dealer as a bigger factor when I purchase my next car.
In the next year or so we plan to replace the 100k mile ’11 Subaru with a new car, but keep the 200k mile ’09 Honda, and I guess this tells you what we think of the Subaru…
@George A: We bought the ’11 Outback in October of last year from a semi-shady Used Car Lot about 100 miles from where we lived. The 2008 needs so much work it is undriveable. Another accident with a Ford minivan left us on ONE car (mine) in the WOODS.
We needed a car. My mother demanded another Subaru Outback. She also started to demand Emancipation and Divorce for being forced to live like a Hillbilly. (We were all laughing together about that last one, she wasn’t serious.) I only had time to do a cursory, once-over inspection: functional tests of all the lights and interior features, door locks, windows, moonroof, etc. Then a basic water-ingress “this car was once a submarine” inspection for moisture or other signs (I could find none) and prior body damage (evidence of straightening or repainting.) There was none. All the lenses on the lights appeared to be original so it was unlikely the car had ever been hit. The engine compartment was clean albeit missing one small cover. It looked to have been maintained and the oil was clean and full. I had a short test drive of about 1.5 miles (no plates!) and it ran well. The interior was beautiful and my mother loved the exterior too. So I only had 20 minutes to do my thing.
She applied pressure to buy the car. This vehicle was ineligible for the CT Automatic Warranty Lemon Protection Law. My father paid the man in full. We picked up the car the next day and put about 150 problem-free miles on it, which were “delightful” according to them.
The next day the head gaskets blew. They had used stop-leak to mask the problem. Long story short: lots of threats and yelling ensued via cellphone & email. Guy in CT reminded me of the Jerky Boys and I gave it right back to him. Agreement was reached: I bought all the parts to repair the car, their mechanic did the work. Yay! Car was fixed, for real this time, and ran better than when we got it. Like new.
A week later the CVT started lurching and not going into “move.” Sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldn’t, but it would throw the codes P2764 and P0700. Those are CVT transmission / torque converter solenoid.
We were beyond furious with the seller. I began thinking of Rage Against the Machine album with the self-immolating Buddhist Monk. A local transmission shop said $3,500 to replace the transmission. I suggested a “Hail Mary” pass to very-highly rated Subaru dealership in MA, one of a handful. We took it to them, they read the VIN and told us the CVT was eligible for repair and refurbishment under the extended recall warranty. They did a fantastic job and the car runs perfectly now.
There are very good dealerships out there, you have to find them, and YES they make a big difference when they mean what they say about being honest and extending “Subaru LOVE.”
YMMV. Also, NEVER BUY A USED CAR WITHOUT AN INDEPENDENT MECHANICAL INSPECTION. ALL CAPS. Learn it, know it, live it.
Sorry, hit “Post Comment” before entering Name. It’s me (1.0).
We rented from Hertz in Denver back in July. The facility was like a refugee camp, and we were in there a couple hours. I would have gladly traded a 3/4 full gas tank for prompt service.
And the lane departure warning doesn’t (or shouldn’t) go off if your turn signal is on.
How does the lane departure warning system work? Is there a popup on the touchscreen that asks the delinquent in Windows style: “Do you really want to depart from your lane?”
Or is it a voice like in a stall warning?