Except for a handful of Deplorables, New Yorkers whom I met recently were 100 percent aligned with Hamas in terms of what they’d like Israel and the Israel Defense Forces to do. At the same time they say that they are “anti-Hamas”. How does it work? Note that most of these folks are non-observant Jews whose principal current religion is expressing hatred for Donald Trump and contempt for Americans in “Red States” (they’re stupid and unproductive and survive only as parasites on the hard workers and heavy taxpayers in Blue States).
The New York Righteous say that, yes, Israel has the right to try to arrest or even kill Hamas fighters, but only if there is no possibility of injuring a civilian or a child. In other words, a Hamas fighter who keeps a child strapped to his chest would be permanently off limits. They accept at face value assertions that Israel is starving the Gazans, not noticing that the moms of the purportedly starved children have double chins. Here’s the most persuasive photo that CNN could find, for example:
One New York Jew in his 60s, despite being a 100 percent loyal Democrat and frequent spontaneous expresser of Trump hatred, seems to have found an area of agreement with Marjorie Taylor Greene of Jewish Space Lasers fame. He believes that Israel knows exactly where each Hamas fighter is located and has weapon systems capable of killing those fighters without harming anyone else. For reasons that aren’t clearly specified, Israel has chosen not to push the buttons in a control room somewhere that would result in the deaths of 100 percent of Hamas-affiliated Gazans. Israel is instead bombing and shelling Gaza for no reason other than Israelis enjoy killing civilians and making the noble Gazans suffer. So… he says that he is “anti-Hamas” but also that he is “pro innocent children” and that the IDF is free to fight Hamas so long as it does so in a way that no other military in the history of the world has managed to fight or win.
I’m culturally a Congregationalist, not observant, which means some of my ancestors were Puritans–who had IMO minor issues with the Church of England. Some migrated to America (Taxachussets, I think, sorry), kicked the Indians out, and started burning witches (i.e. Puritans they didn’t like) at the stake and persecuting Quakers. Pretty messed up.
Some of my ancestors were also German immigrants, via Russia, given asylum by the Catherine the Great, and Lutherans. They moved to a fly-over (quite red) state in the U.S. and became farmers, until factory farming displaced and scattered them, mostly peaceful.
I’m very ignorant of the politics and culture of the Middle East (and obviously of my own)–most of the people I grew up with had never met a Jew, there were some Muslims. When I went to college in New York, I met many Jews. I couldn’t imagine why anyone would want to kill any of them, or the Muslims I met either. (I’m not completely naive, I know there are evil people in the world that need to be removed from participating in it, I remember staring straight down from the top of one of the towers, and that it is gone.) The more observant Jews knew the New Testament better than many of my Christian classmates in our Lit Hum class, I recall.
Call me a wuss–I really wish we could just find a way to stop killing one another in the name of God, the devil, or any cause–seriously. We have too many problems we need to work on, I don’t think anyone would disagree with that. One prime problem being evil, which we should all fight, especially in ourselves.
Becky is using Margaritaville in her condo marketing, but my anthem is (speaking of Ohio):
That old guy still had game, yo. As an old dude, if I would have approached her to dance, she would have said “buzz off creep”. I guess I don’t look like I have $1M. Wait, either did he…
That’s a good secular demonstration why my/our people lost our state and could not restore one for 2 thousands years. It has deep Biblical reasons.
> That’s a good secular demonstration
You mean the YouTube video? Or Phil’s stuff?
So more:
> contempt for Americans in “Red States” (they’re stupid and unproductive and survive only as parasites on the hard workers and heavy taxpayers in Blue States).
I think Phil was being sarcastic, not needing an example.
> my/our people
Who are your people? Jews? Palestinians? We actually did study the bible in Lit Hum, and Sunday School, and in my spare time. I’m probably ignorant by your standards, but I know Jews have not had it easy. You could even be a Roman, their state seems to be in the process of restoration as well.
Your offhand, one-liner comment with nearly zero context, I would argue, is a good demonstration of how this echo chamber of an Internet is going to cost us our world, including your restored one. Really, no animosity–humans deserve a home and a state–except criminals who deserve jail. My people, Americans, are fighting for their state too. We might agree at a deeper level than you realize.
How about some constructive ideas for peace? It should be our priority.
@Trust skeptic, I responded to Philip’s post. I could be more clear but I responded in parallel with first commenter, I did not expect this post being so popular. I identify with Jewish people, who discovered many of modern vices back in antiquity. For example, over-reliance on allies (Rome, you probably can not believe it but Roman Republic was at he beginning Judea’s ally); as a result of reliance on Rome’s muscle – pacifism and anti-militarism, going from being feared regional power to not knowing how to field armies; affirmative action for our conquered cousins the Edomites, Jewish king (from a priestly dynasty, which in itself was not right) elevated opportunistic convert Herod 1st and Romans selected him as a ruler, to separate and rule and because Romans were closer to Edom then to Judea; and wokeism – dissolved courts when law required enacting death sentences, instead of following the law.
It has deep reasons in God’s word, you can read from Bible literally and map paragraphs to what had happened, but from secular view it looks similar to modern Western politics. Judea did not invent this – it was happening across many ancient civilizations.
As for the clip in first comment, I like the song. But the clip and the sentiment are as realistic as old fit people feeding on beer that it shows.
@perplexed
We’re cool. Sorry, I went a little overboard, we rednecks are kinda sensitive regardin’ our music and edukashion, especially after the Ivy Elites from Connecti-cucked beat us up about where we are from.
> Rome, you probably can not believe it but Roman Republic was at he beginning Judea’s ally
I spent a semester studying Roman history in Latin at Columbia in the law library, for the bargain price of $1000, and did not ever read that, but I believe you.
Later on you correct me…
> “Thou shall not murder”
Better translation…King James might disagree, but No Kings right? I don’t know why we kept English after we soundly beat the Englanders in The Revolution. Why not Hebrew, French, Greek, or Latin? Just kidding, not British baiting here.
I still don’t know what your beef is with Phil’s video, but that’s OK. I saw CNN and ignored it.
@Trust skeptic, alliance between Judea and Rome is well documented, including formal treaty where Judea commits not to building warships (Rome even seized some ports from Judea). First Roman Emperor Gaius Octavius aka Caesar Augustus famously said about his personal friend Herod “I’d rather be Herod’s pig than his son.”, mocking his opportunistic Judaism. Judea’s Jewish army was fighting Parthians and Persians for Rome after Rome suffered setbacks from Persians and Parthians. At some point Herod participated in power straggle for Roman rule, on the loosing side, but was spared by the winner due to his situational importance. How it started? Two princes, Hyrcanus and Aristobulus were fighting for succession and were inviting different forces to their cause, including previously defeated Nabatheans and historic allies Romans. Here is what wikipedia says, but this is not the whole story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(63_BC) . Here is wikipedia on Roman – Judean treaty, again not precise, just to become familiar with the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman%E2%80%93Jewish_Treaty . Judea – Roman relations started in first half of 2nd century BC. I will not give you Jewish sources, because they are often not in English and you will not believe it anyway, but Italian sources cover this in detail too, and sometimes in English. Looks like Columbia has a thing for Jewish history, if it fails to mention Roman – Jewish relations, a minor thing that produced Jesus Christ and yet the largest religion of Christianity, religion that Rome itself adopted.
As for the song in the video, I love country music, am a fan of Nashville music row and of beer. But as a middle-aged male who exercises regularly, I question whether it is possible stay trim through the middle age while enjoying beer diet. Maybe a rancher who somehow remained without ranch hands or an middle – aged ranch hand could accomplish such a fit. But a fatty liver is a much more likely outcome.
@perplexed
Thank you for your effort to educate me, without a trace of sarcasm or mistrust (maybe a little cynicism)–I do believe Romans might have cozied up to a nation before conquering them. Maybe I just never looked at it that way. “Anyone interested in a large wooden Roman Horse?” The religion of the Romans was syncretic, and they were known for tolerance of established religions, as long as the taxman was happy and the natives weren’t restless.
I think the real problem is I’m getting as snarky as old Augustus C., apparently. Integrating all the crazies that he had to manage, including himself, I can see how he got that way. Viz:
> On hearing that the son of Herod, king of the Jews, had been slain when Herod ordered that all boys in Syria under the age of two be killed, Augustus said, “It’s better to be Herod’s pig than his son”.
> Macrobius, Saturnalia, II. IV.11 (Loeb Classical)
Sadly, most of what I learned about Rome/Judea was from “The Life of Brian”. 🙁
ChatHugo told me that Napoleon was quite snarky (and Trump? Fuhgedaboudit, “No Emperors” more like it):
> History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon.
> Napoleon, apocryphally
Macrobius sounds like what they put in yogurt, I guess I trust him/her/xher. It really was one of the better courses I took, Columbia wasn’t responsible for my ignorance of the history of Judean-Roman relations, and it wasn’t an antisemitic conspiracy on their part. Rome had a long history; we read sources closer to primary, so we had to “pick our poison”; and I spent a lot of time on conquest of Britain. I also never that interested in wars and kings and oppression (yuck), I tried to learn about engineering, and architecture, and agriculture as well.
I used to detest country music when I lived on the Great Plains as a boy, seemed bucolic and provincial. A suite-mate at Columbia incessantly played the Eagles and Springsteen (Jersey Country) which really annoyed me since he was from Maskachussets. At least our minstrel here gives a revenge story on the old man’s parasitic trust-fund family. “Hell yeah, spend the $1M on bling for the girl and beer, dude!” (Now I’m back to my normal level of Internet-horror snark.) I’m not in the Big Beer lobby, so I agree with you on the detriments to health in large quantities. It does sound like a “straight to beer commercial” song, and a good slogan for me.
Before anyone attributes a subtext to me I’m not implying, note that “Syria” in Macrobius meant the Roman province, not the country today we refer to as Syria.
@Trust sceptic, you had fine upbringing and education.
I doubt that the Romans planned in 169 BC, when they were Republic that hoped to check the Selevkides and the Ptolemeans, what they were going to do in 62 AD, when they were an estsblished empire with mafia-like government structures that depended on infusions of gold and currency debauchery to keep itself alive as an expanding empire. Name Syria, or rather Suria, seems to be too of Roman invention, maybe to keep their Judean allies checked. Hasmonean dynasty was successful in recovering lostbterritories on the right bank of river Jordan and to the south and south east and west into what now considered Nabatean empire and looked to expand in areas of modern Lebanon and Syria that had large Jewish populations since earlier Davidic kingdom times.
The point is not to overly rely on foreign allies, as stated in both Hebrew Bible and Later Prophets. It may work for a while, but on the long run almost guaranteed to fail. as situations are changing for all allied nations.
@Trust skeptic, I would not call Roman religion syncretic. Original Roman pantheon and religion were influenced by the classical Greeks and probably the Etruscans and other conquered Latin people but Roman religion tradition was pretty strict. They allowed some of conquered people (not all) to keep their religions, that’s about it. The same can be said about Second Temple Judaism but nobody would call it syncretic. First Temple Judaism was even more inclusive, with other religions temples allowed to be build in the capital of Jerusalem in the City of David, not that far from First Jewish Temple. At some point Persian encouraged all religions in their controlled territory, and even donated to revive worship and rebuild temples, includin Second Jewish Temple. But it is probably due to who was the King of Persia at that tome, not due to Persian syncretism of Persian religion.
@perplexed
“Was the Roman religion syncretic?”
Yes. (My Latin teacher and professor in college, IIRC.)
Yes. (Leo AI)
Yes. (GPT 4o mini)
Yes. (Mistral Small 3)
Yes. (Llama 4)
Yes, indeed! (GPT 5 mini, in a sycophantic mood, possibly cozying up to me.)
Yes, highly.
I’ll craft a haiku that captures the syncretic nature of Roman religion:
Gods blend and merge soft
Greek, Etruscan spirits dance
Roman altars bloom
(Claude Haiku 3.5)
Since AI is infallible, I’m right. Just kidding, I don’t think the word is a perfect fit either.
The AI employees are going to have to eat their Kobe steak rare tonight. Apparently, some “scholar” on Wikipedia said Plutarch’s (non-religious) introduction of the word was “naive” (without citation). Also, Phil is going to have to add a hard drive to his server for this off topic discussion. Thanks for the interesting discussion!
@Trust skeptic, my search engine AI says that Romans were religious chauvinists, forced their religion on others, followed strict sacrificial practices, promoted the Imperial cult, which emphasized loyalty to the Roman state and its gods (historic and archeological evidence supports this) and persecuted some religions, early Christianity for example.
Also it point to wikipedia article “Understanding Religious Chauvinism in Ancient Rome” It supposedly begins with
“Definition of Religious Chauvinism
Religious chauvinism refers to the belief in the superiority of one’s own religion over others. In ancient Rome, this manifested as a strong sense of pride in Roman religious practices and a tendency to view other religions as inferior or misguided.”
I did not bother to check. So ask all your AI whether Romans were religious chauvinists.
ChatPython 0.1 returned:
“Romanes eunt domus”
@In God We Trust
That’s a happy thought. Not sure how it reconciles with the death cult that is Hamas and many of the other similarly inclined inhabitants of the Middle East who would probably agree that the problem we need to work on before most others is the presence of Jews in the Middle East.
Maybe this will be illuminating (from 2014):
https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/why-dont-i-criticize-israel
> That’s a happy thought.
Christ taught us to hold peace in our thoughts, as well as our actions. I’m not criticizing Israel either, that wouldn’t be my prerogative. “Thou shalt not kill,” applies to all, IMO. And I won’t let the madness, actions or mindset, of others interfere with my happiness. I’ve been through some shit in my life too, trust me sir/madam/xhe, medical doctors can’t even bear hearing.
Have a nice day!
Oh, by the way, my people have a saying–when they chose to separate from England:
“Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” — The United States Declaration of Independence
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/the-declaration-independence
All three of which I agree with, and mentioned. Maybe that would be illuminating for us all to read again. 🙂
Mazel tov.
@Trust skeptic. Thou shell not kill should be translated as “Thou shall not murder”.
There are 22 Arab countries in the Middle East with a combined population of over 400 million people. Among them are some of the wealthiest nations in the world. Meanwhile, about 2.1 million Palestinians live in Gaza — most of whom were living in poverty and hardship even before Israel’s offensive of October 2023.
You would expect that some of these wealthy Arab countries would step in to help the starving children there — yet that hasn’t happened.
You would expect that some of them would demand Hamas to stop the fighting — yet that hasn’t happened.
You would expect that Arab countries, rich and poor alike, would protest day and night and rise up in an “Arab Spring” against Israel — yet that hasn’t happened.
Meanwhile, nearly all of the protests against Israel have come from Western countries.
Insightful commentary, with the implied question, “Why?”
Related, when Atlas shrugged, i.e. the U.S. pulled back from support for NATO and the Russo-Ukrainian war, or at least promised to, didn’t it get a lot of political flack from Europe? And when the Trump administration withdrew a significant amount of humanitarian aid, wasn’t there world outcry and protest? Maybe everybody’s become too dependent on the U.S. to do the right thing? I would suggest that people who have a problem with Trump at least try to look at him as a symptom rather than cause.
We in the U.S. are often the least qualified to know what “the right thing” is for foreign regions with dynamics going back millennia. It really is in peoples’ best interests to “saddle their own ponies”, solve their own problems, and fight their own battles (maybe their fathers aren’t telling them that, like mine did), as solutions from the U.S. (often to protect its own interests) can be blunt instruments. Fire away with criticisms of my analysis, political science is not my forte.
Thanks for your ideas, George A.
“The American troops are independent and will not be commanded.” — Lafayette
“Americanes eunt domus.” — Brian, c. 2025 A.D. (of course A.D., wasn’t very much going on in 2025 B.C.)
Henry Kissinger
How I’m missing yer
You’re the Doctor of my dreams
I know they say that you are very vain
And short and fat and pushy
But at least you’re not insane
— Monty Python, Henry Kissinger