30 thoughts on “Request for comments on a digital camera article

  1. I would emphasize how much smaller (i.e. noisier) the Four-Thirds format sensors are compared to the APS-C sensors in the Canon/Nikon DSLRs.

    I tend to agree with your Canon recommendation (I switched from Nikon to Canon when I got my first DSLR, a D30), but the Nikons have better sustained speed, which can be an important factor for parents shooting small children (Heisenberg effect – their position and speed cannot be predicted simultaneously…) or little league games.

    One additional accessory I would add to the recommendation is a small IR remote so you can include yourself in a portrait.

  2. I’d say drop the sentence “It is rather unsatisfying to fool around with a camera unless you can form images on the sensor and therefore you need a lens” as anyone considering the purchase of this type of system probably knows that? Also, there is a typo later on in that paragraph. I scanned the article kind of quickly (it had some great ideas for projects, concisely framed and thought provoking) so I may have missed some commentary on in-camera operating software as a basis for comparison. I’m very impressed with Nikon’s efforts in the point-and-shoot area, if I were considering SLR’s I’d really like to have a precis comparison of in-camera software strengths and weaknesses. Finally, I find it hard to believe that anyone considering this kind of an investment doesn’t already have Photoshop or Photoshop Elements. Most photographers I know, both pro and amateur, oooh and ahh over what Photoshop can do. They would regard your brief mention as relatively uninformed, which of course it is not, or perhaps just plain dumb. I would simply drop it, leave th e mention to Picasa, and leave it at that (Mac users already know they have iPhoot — oops I mean iPhoto). Also, this sounds stupid, but do the cameras you mention have video like the coolpixes and the minoltas? Or are they still “still-only”? cheers!

  3. You spelled “choice” incorrectly as “choie”. You say “see the image at right” but the image is on the left.

  4. project: city at night- “Set the camera to ISO 100 slide film”. I like the line about needing a lens. I wouldn’t read your stuff if you didn’t make it conversationally compelling.

  5. I’d say you got some things wrong from the start.

    “no.1) accurate, large, and bright optical viewfinder”
    Current viewfinders (especially those in Canon 20D, 300D, 350D etc) are neither large, bright or accurate (compared to “old school” viewfinders). I haven’t used a D70 in a long time but I believe it’s got the same problem, Minolta 7D is an exception if I remember correctly.

    “no.2) With the digital SLR you have a good idea of what you’re going to capture by looking through the viewfinder” and followed with “The mirror and optical viewfinder are what enable a photographer to frame images more quickly and accurately than with a point-and-shoot camera.”

    If you’re talking about TTL viewing compared to small viewfinders on digicams then I’d argue against your statement. Most people with digicams use the LCD on the back (or EVF) which give you a much more accurate preview of what will be captured (goes with no.1 as well). They don’t work as well in direct sunlight or dark environments but for general use they are probably better.

    Then there’s the incredibly useful instant feedback in the EVF so you can keep your eyes on the viewfinder at all times. Sometimes I miss an EVF in my 20D 😉 I’ve screwed up quite a number of shots because I only checked the LCD after a finished series. That never happened with EVFs because I instantly saw if I made an error (with exposure or something like it).

    I’d also mention SanDisk Extreme III and Ultra II series. A quick look at Rob Galbraiths CF database will tell you that they are currently the best thing on the market and only rivaled by Lexar second editon 80X cards (first edition cause problems on Canon bodies)

  6. You mention that the digital rebel is known as something else “internationally”… is this the same as “outside the US”?

  7. In the last section, the common spelling is “Shlomo”, not “Schlomo” 🙂

    How about a brief mention of the nifty digital camera “panorama” setting that displays the edge of your previous shot on the LCD, so you can line up your next one to overlap? (You still have to sit at home and stich them together, but at least this way you know when you’ve captured it all)

  8. I didn’t think the section on accessories was very inspired.

    There are tiny accessories that give dramatic leverage to photography. For example, the one I most recently discovered — an offshoe camera cord. Now I can use a crappy tiny little 380EX with my 1dmkii and bounce it with glee — the quality of the light is dramatically better.

    As well, there is no mention of a choosing a monopod over a tripod — in certain circumstances it can be a lot more usable and useful.

    Beside accessories, another are I think people often overlook is how a macro lens is soooo much more useful than for just taking pictures of ants milking aphids. Getting a camera close and cropped from the start often makes a much better photo. Having a nice lens w/ a macro element can allow you to get those excellent crops and details. Yeah you probably lose some light and increase the weight, but I couldn’t live without mine.

  9. Informative essay, thanks. I’ve been eyeing the EOS 20D, which I’m assuming could share lenses with my Elan 7e. The selection of normal lenses for the 20D seems pretty grim but I guess that’s life.

  10. [[Finally, I find it hard to believe that anyone considering this kind of an investment doesn’t already have Photoshop or Photoshop Elements.]]

    This is probably a rather common misconception. With Digital SLRs approaching the $600 range, I would argue that that aspect of the market has a high probability of /not/ owning either one of those programs.

    [[I’ve been eyeing the EOS 20D, which I’m assuming could share lenses with my Elan 7e]]

    Lenses you’ve purchased for your Elan 7 will work with your Canon 20D. Lenses purchased for your 20D may or may not work with your Elan 7. With the 300D (digital rebel) Canon introduced the EF-S lens mount. This mount is now used on the 300D, the 350D (Digital rebel XT) and the 20D. All EF lenses work on all EF and EF-S lens mount cameras. But EF-S lenses ONLY work with EF-S mounts. This is one of those bits of confusion that may trip purchasers of the APS-sized sensor cameras.

    Philip,
    The article seems rather overwhelming in spots (too long a discussion of “projects”?) and underwhelming in others (light on the other manufs. and no mention of sensor dust?). I think the judgements you make on current DSLR manufactures is not correct (in particular Pentax which offers far better viewfinders for the same market as the 300D/350D and D70/D50). I am not a Pentax owner, (my SLR gear is all Canon), but I have used the *ist D and it is actually quite nice. For someone coming only from point and shoots, the *ist DS or even the new *ist DL are on equal footing with the 300D/350D or the D70/D50.

    Of course, your article is your article; you don’t need to make your article more objective, but I wish you would. 🙂

  11. Philip,

    I’m glad to see that you still take time to write for photo.net. thanks for that.

    As for this article, I have a few remarks since you called for them.

    -when you mention software, you seems to let the person think there are only Windows programs. Not to start a war, just that it is fuzzy in you article. Mentionning that there are equaly good software on other platforms would make it.

    -you don’t really mention the EF-S mount issue and the fact that it is only compatible with recent APS-sized-sensor camera. Same applies for Nikon DX lens. It is important to know when choosing a lens. As for the short length, the 12-24 Sigma has also a really good reputation amongst Canon and Nikon users. (I haven’t tried it myself)

    -you don’t mention the RAW problem and that currently vendor are making everything that is possible to not disclose this format, making them you depend of either their willing to support your camera or the talent engineers performing reverse-engineering. Example: Canon Digital Photo Pro does NOT support Canon D30 files. So it is likely than in 5 years ahead they might not support your camera with recent software and that the older software, as usual only run on older operating system. Unlike film, your pictures might be prisonner of some proprietary technoloogy. And that is some really important point to mention.

    -last thing: I would have expected to see pictures taken with DSLR intead of PhotoCD scans 🙂

  12. Just another quick note: dust in an entirely overblown issue as it is. I haven’t noticed it in any normal, everyday shot in almost a year.

  13. I think you should make sure all of the pictures you use on your page were created with a digital SLR. I recognize some of them from your older stories, long before digital SLRs even existed.

  14. Phil, I have owned several film SLRs, two digicams, two scanners and two inkjets. I _am_ thinking about getting an DSLR. But honestly, there isn’t anything new in your article; and it doesn’t make me want to buy one right now. I would say that 80% of your article relate to SLRs, regardless of digital or film. The 20% about software and sensor size, that I am just not terribly excited about. I guess from my perspective, I would like you to explain why I should give up my F4s for an EOS 20D. But somebody may want to know why he should go from point-n-shoot to DSLR. Two different audiences.

  15. The comment in the last section about incadescent/fluorescent light (“…while the commercial wedding photographer will be forced to use flash all the time in order to avoid green- or yellow-tinted photos”) isn’t really valid with the sort of state-of-the-art auto white balance a professional would have on his/her camera, is it? Like you say in the beginning, DSLRs are the standard tool for any serious photographer. The other rationale for going black-and-white, the lack of color coordination among the wedding guests, is probably valid even in the days of DSLRs though.

  16. Phil, you may want to add a section about cleaning the CCD sensors. Also, you should mention that the $70 50mm/f1.8 lens is a must buy as a portrait lens for the Canon small-sensor cameras. Even if someone wants to stick with the 18-55 kit for the beginning, they should get the 50mm at least to get a taste of what a faster lens can do.

  17. Just a few comments on what I think is a very good and helpful article:

    – I’m not sure its fair to call Canon the sole market leader. Why not just group Canon and Nikon together as the market leaders, and the other manufacturers as the smaller vendors?

    – I realize it’s a subtle point, but it’s worth explaining that a 50mm normal perspective lens doesn’t really behave like a 75mm telephoto lens on a film camera — it gives the same field of view as a 75mm telephoto lens, but the perspective of a 50mm lens.

    – I would mention that lots of “digital-only” lenses are available for the “Big lenses, small sensor” type cameras in the same paragraph, rather than after the “Small lenses, small sensor” paragraph. Yes, it does take the wind out of the sails of the Four Thirds consortium, but maybe that’s justified. It might also force you to make clear that the Olympus E1 is still a smaller and more compact system, and if you really need a compact DSLR maybe it’s appropriate.

    – There may also be reasons to buy a Minolta DSLR, given its innovative Anti-Shake technology. This seems more useful than advantages conferred by the Olympus system.

    – I don’t disagree with the general statement that “At many points in time Canon makes slightly more advanced bodies” but if we consider the situation at the present point in time, I’m not sure whether the Canon Digital Rebel XT can be considered a more advanced body than the Nikon D70s. In fact, I’d probably say the opposite. Maybe we value different features? That’s great but maybe it would be useful to add a paragraph talking about some features that bodies have that a beginner might care about . . . what is a DOF preview button and why is it useful? Why are two control knobs useful? Should you care about flash sync? Bracketing options? Grid lines in the viewfinder? RAW/JPEG files together? Etc.

    – I’m very much with you on the recommendation to a beginner to get a prime lens, but the following statement is not true: “In fact the final image quality produced by a heavy expensive digital SLR with a cheap light zoom lens will not be that different from what you’d get with a point-and-shoot digicam.” The lens that comes with the Nikon D70 is not a replacement for a body cap, but a medium quality zoom lens that has good contrast and color. Rather than prevaricating about the quality of zoom lenses (using the 18-70 DX ED Nikkor on a D70 will look different than a P&S digital!) why not make a stronger case for buying primes? In addition to the reasons you give about learning how to frame and compose, prime lenses are smaller, lighter, less prone to flare (so you probably don’t need to add a lens hood), and fast primes can take pictures in much, much lower light. You can acknowledge that modern zooms have improved in quality, but while a professional quality zoom might cost $1000+, a professional quality prime costs about the same as a consumer zoom. I would also make a stronger statement to warn beginners about staying away from off-band lesnes.

    – A 50mm lens is still a “normal perspective” lens on an APS-C system, but a 35mm lens will provide the same field of view as a 50mm lens on a 35mm film camera. I can see why one might recommend that a beginner purchase a 35mm lens for a DSLR, but a 28mm lens or a 50mm lens could also be great choices — especially as very fast and high quality 50mm primes can be had for very low prices, and a 28/2.8 is less expensive than a 35/2. I might recommend a 28/2.8 and a 50/1.8, which are about the price as a 35/2.

    – You may want to add a note about fisheye lenses, and the possible advantages of using one on a DSLR.

    – Some people may want to get a polarizing filter, as it can really improve pictures taken in sunlight. I agree that a beginner may not want to start with this, but it might be helpful to describe what a few common types of filters do (or link to page that does) rather than just say not to buy any. Also, they may not know that some people use UV filters to protect their lenses and may be confused by your discussion of filters as it stands now).

    – The SanDisk Ultra II CF cards seem to be as good as the Lexar high-speed CF cards.

    – A remote release is a good accessory that many beginners might want. If using a tripod a small level that fits in the hot shoe might be useful also.

  18. Samuel, perspective depends on how far away you are from the subject, it has nothing to do with focal length. And considering you would be standing as far away from your subject when using a 50mm lens on a 1.5x crop DSLR as you would using a 75mm lens on a full frame camera to fill the frame with the same content, the perspective is the same. The only thing that doesn’t change due to the crop is the depth of field charectaristics.

  19. Any comments about the Canon image stablized lens? When my Canon-using friend talks about Canon vs Nikon, he always points out the Canon IS lens. I noticed that none of the lens you recommended in the Canon line were IS lens, suggesting that you may think that IS isn’t worth the money ..?

  20. One more comment – in the article you reference for the micro-fiber cloth, you note that you put a BW U/V filter on all your lens. Here you recommend against a filter. Almost everyone else says “get a filter!” so it might be worth saying a few more words about why you buck the conventional wisdom.

  21. You should spend a little more time talking about how a dSLR is different from a P&S. You also need to spend a little more time on the treatment of ISO numbers in a digital environment…. I felt that the light / noise trade off was important, yet not covered.

  22. Another great article. I think you should discuss write speeds with CF cards. Is it worth it to always buy the fastest? Also you may mention that Lexar’s “WA” Technology does not work with Canon cameras. Therefore Canon owners may save money buy a slower card that writes at the same speed as the Lexar operating withou the “WA”. Keep up the great work.

  23. Thanks for all of the comments, folks! I will try to work them in during a rainy day in Anchorage.

    Paul: I don’t actually use filters on many of my lenses. Sometimes I attach one when going out into a hostile environment. As for the IS lenses I do like my 600/4 IS but it is kind of a specialized tool and not the best starter lens for the person of average strength (the thing weighs more than 12 lbs.)

    David: I did not know that about Lexar WA. Thanks!

  24. If comments have not yet closed, could I add a request?

    Not everyone contemplating a DSLR is a newby. I still have a bagful of MF Nikkors, and the most useful fact i could learn from an article such as yours is a confirmation of how they can be used here in the digital era.

    My understanding is that an adaptor will let me use Nikon lenses on Canon DSLRs, often with more functionality than on NIKON cameras. But neither Canon nor Nikon goes out of their way to mention this, and the camera magazines don’t seem to want to talk it up much, either. Could your article spend a paragraph or two talking about this?

    Thanks in advance

  25. An excellent introduction to dSLRs, thanks. The one area that I’d like to see a little more detail is a comparison of the *print quality* of dSLR versus 35 mm (or versus point-and-shoot, for that matter). You stated the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II dSLR is approaching medium format in quality. Is this true for large prints, as well? What about the smaller sensor dSLR models? How do the prints look, versus 35 mm film, for larger prints (say 11X14)? I’ve heard it said that the film manufacturers estimate that 35 mm film has between 12 and 25 MP. Is this about right, when it comes to prints? I’ve downloaded some d70 photos from the Internet, and printed out at 16″X20″, and they look pretty good to me, but I’m no expert, and I don’t have a film equivalent of each to compare with. Would like to get your take, re: larger prints, for dSLRs versus 35 mm film.

  26. I’d just like to express the hope that Hub’s assumption that this is written for photo.net, will become reality. In an earlier comment Philip expressed his disappointment at not being able to find his stuff on the photo.net (file) server anymore, so perhaps it’s a slim chance. Would be nice, though.

  27. I think most picturetaking is photojournalism of sorts. People are trying to get images of people who matter to them, as events unfold. For this kind of photography, the advantages of a zoom lens are obvious, as you yourself point out in the very last section. When I purchased my Canon D30, I got a 28-135 image stabilized lens and it’s been perfect for me.

    Concerning your point and shoot comment, I can say that the quality of my photos went way up when I got a DSLR as opposed to a point and shoot digital camera. This is not due to the number of pixels or the theoretical image quality advantages; it’s because I could see easily through the viewfinder and adjust focus and framing precisely. So I would still recommend a DSLR to any serious photographer who didn’t have a problem with the camera’s weight.

    Hope that helps.

    D

  28. The question of “I have an F4s/1V; why should I upgrade” is that there are a bunch of highly technical issues specific to each lineup that need to be dealt with. I’m a Nikon shooter and know the Nikon “quirks” best–the creeping incompatibility with older lenses in the low end line–but one big issue is that the lens lineup you already have is very likely to be inappropriate for a small sensor DSLR. Case in point: when I bought my D100, about two weeks later I bought the Sigma 15-30 (because the 12-24 wasn’t out yet) because I realized I needed something wider than what my 24 had become on that body. I also do a lot of low light shooting and hated that my “normal” lens had suddenly lost a stop of speed, effectively (because I had to use the 35/2 instead of the 50/1.4–and similarly the 24/2.8 instead of the 35/2).

    There are similar, and line specific, headaches that crop up elsewhere; I’m not a Minolta shooter but I believe that currently the only midrange zoom in their lineup that works with the 7D DSLR is the 17-35. Until the EFS lenses Canon shooters had no real standard or wide zoom choices for the smaller sensors. The Olympus E series had no fast lenses (and still don’t by my definition–fast starts at f/2) which made the smaller sensor’s noise characteristics all the more bothersome.

    And on and on. It’s virtually impossible to talk about with these issues in a non-line specific manner, so you can either talk about specific stuff, or you can make general sort of wooly statements.

Comments are closed.