Punished by Rewards

by philg

I’m part way through Punished by Rewards, the 1993 classic that will eventually be recommended to any parent who has friends with an interest in experimental psychology. The cornerstone of the book is research that shows that people who are told “If you do X, then you can get Y” will stop liking/valuing X. Thus if the author, Alfie Kohn, is right, many things that parents do and everything that schools do are precisely the wrong things to be doing.

The insights in Punished by Rewards are consistent with a lot of the stuff that I’ve noticed as a teacher. The combined role of teacher and judge (see “stop grading your own students” within my Universities and Economic Growth article) does not make sense for student, teacher, or society (because in the end we are all deprived of honest evaluations). Kohn’s insights are also consistent with what I’ve seen in the aviation industry. Airplane mechanics typically hated school and usually did not attend college, yet these are highly intelligent people who love to learn and excel at learning both from books and from hands-on doing.

There are some harsh criticisms for this book over at Amazon and I’d be interested to hear from readers who are experts as to what Kohn got wrong.

15 thoughts on “Punished by Rewards”

  1. Have you ever read Po Bronson’s Nurture Shock? It’s all about similar myths that are actually counter-productive to rearing children. Fantastic read.

  2. spleeness: I have not read Nurture Shock. Are you saying that he is in agreement with Kohn and Punished by Rewards? If so, it is kind of funny that Bronson’s publisher added the subtitle “New Thinking” to Bronson’s 2009 book if in fact some of the ideas are from the 1993 Punished by Rewards.

    I wonder if there actually has been any new thinking regarding child rearing since Ancient Greece/Rome. Or are we just bouncing around within lines that were established several thousand years ago?

  3. As a parent of two, I can say that this is bullshit. If you want X to happen, you have 3 choices: (1) wait until your kid realizes that X is important and does it, may take decades; (2) make him do it or (3) reward him for doing it. Anything else I am missing? In my experience, (2) is the worst possible solution, (1) is unrealistic, which leaves us with (3) — you get Y if you do X.

  4. The book Punished By Rewards seemed true to my own experience – I found rewards generally demotivating. Mishka, the general message includes that even when rewards work, you are likely to win the battle and lose the war. You can bribe a kid to do homework this one time, but only at the expense of making him even LESS likely to do it in the future. You can bribe a kid into doing homework, but you can’t bribe a kid into *wanting* to do homework, or *wanting* to excel academically. Indeed, the provision of bribes (external motivation) tends to destroy internal motivation.

    Incidentally, you left out an important choice: (4) allow X not to happen.

  5. In his book, The Biology of Art Desmond Morris reports the results of an experiment in which chimps were given some art materials. The chimps immediately began to paint in a style reminiscent of modern art. They so loved their artistic endeavors that they started to lose interest in eating, sex and many of the other activities that had once taken up their days. In short the chimps became totally engrossed in creating something.

    In the next phase of Morris’s experiment he rewarded the chimps for their paintings. Very soon their work started to go down hill and eventually they just produced the bare minimum that would satisfy the experimenter and get their reward.

  6. Children are extremely curious — little learning machines — until it gets schooled out of them by boredom and extrinsic rewards. You may get children to eat vegetables by holding out desert, and get (some) kids to study in quest of good grades, but the meta-lesson is to make vegetables even less attractive and sugar even more attractive, and to swap out natural curiosity for gold stars and good grades.

    The problem with schools is the given that content matters, most of which is uninteresting and out-of context for inexperienced young people. Look at Nate Silver’s career. Do you think, as a kid, he was interested in statistics, or baseball?

    In the long run, parent modeling is far more important than anything. If the parents are curious, life-long learners, then, nearly always, their children will be as well. Phil shouldn’t have anything to worry about.

  7. @mishka
    If you truly meant to say your second option (making the child do something) was the worse possible solution, you’re allowing the tale to wag the doggie.

  8. It seems to me, effect of promised award can’t be evaluated in such a simplifyed manner. It’s not simple boolean value. There are many other factors involved like how often reward stimulus is used, the nature of reward, percived importance of the reward, age, individual character, etc.

  12. From my perspective, they will do X but believe their actions are due to the reward (extrinsic) rather than due to intrinsic interest. Without the extrinisc reward SOME people may due X and find it intrinsically interesting. However, given NO motivation the subject may never do X. So, in many cases, I believe, extrinsic motivation is proper.

  13. With regards to “If you do X, then you can get Y” this is really so simple and common sense because the reward / punishment is all about survival. As humans, if we don’t see the value of “X” as means for survival, then why bother?

    Humans are what we are because we learned early on the value of survival. We learned that running away from a lion, sleeping on a tree, and mastering fire all have a reward: the power of survival.

    So, the next time you tell your kids “If you do X, then you can get Y” put “Y” into perspective.

  14. Hiring managers love “Punished By Rewards.”

    “Sorry, Bob, I know you think you want a bigger salary. But research has proven it won’t make you happier. Here, read this book.”

  15. Rewards don’t work well with my children. Either the reward is too intangible (“If you use sunscreen, you won’t get skin cancer.”), or isn’t sufficiently motivating (For yard work vs playing with a friend, the friend will always win, even if large payment is offered.)

    Waiting or letting the children just not do something is not acceptable. The child simply must wear their seat belt. For me, even foregoing homework is not acceptable.

    However, forcing has advantages. First, it is clear to both parties. “I am being forced to brush my teeth,” is how the child perceives it in any case. Second, it satisfies the responsibility of the parent. Lastly, contrary to what you might think, forcing a child to do something doesn’t preclude their doing it on their own later. A child forced to practice may later practice on their own. A child required to bathe may voluntarily spend hours in the bathroom as a teenager. I forced my dyslexic daughter through years of flash cards, reading out loud and a series of tutors, all of which she hated, but now she reads on her own for pleasure all the time. It’s even possible that the aircraft mechanics were forced by their parent into reading and math, forming a foundation for their later education in aviation.

Comments are closed.