One of our household members is not quite ready to ride his own bike. I am playing around with Yepp Mini
What you don’t see in this picture is me having to ride bowlegged in order to avoid whacking my knees on the bottom of the seat. Nor do you see my chest hitting the back of the seat when getting on or off the bike. The top tube of this Schwinn/LL Bean XL frame is about 23.5″ long, which is longer than my existing Specialized XL hybrid bike. I’m thinking that maybe the solution is a bike with a crazy long top tube and handlebars that swoop back so that one isn’t reaching very far forward. But who makes a bike with that geometry? And note that it has to have an old-style headset and threaded fork so that there is a stem sticking out of the top front for attachment of the Yepp bracket.
It seems as though the obvious answer would be a “cruiser” bike, but do those one-size-fits-all bikes work well for taller riders? (I’m 6′ tall but my legs are slightly longer than average, so I ride bikes sized for a 6’2″ tall person.)
[Mission spec: neighborhood riding on quiet smooth roads. Bike spec: can’t be crazy heavy like the cargo bikes.]
Also not pictured is the kid’s face bloody from being scraped along the pavement if you crash. My local bike shop warned me that this is a common occurrence, so I ended up getting the chariot trailer.
Chris: I have a tough time seeing how there could be an ENDO crash on a suburban side street, but do you think that http://www.blackburndesign.com/copilot/limo.html (a back seat; also a similar one from Thule) would be any safer?
[And even in an ENDO crash it looks as though the bar in front would protect the child; the European nanny state seems to have approved the design (see https://www.aikatrading.com/yepp/mini/ ). Finally, none of the 150 or so reviews on Amazon of this seat or the similar iBert design report injury after a crash.]
Any decent local bike shop will be able to help you fit the bike to you– they do this all the time for road cyclists and triathletes. Within reason, you can pick from a pretty wide range of geometries and have them adjust reach, stack, handlebars, etc. to accommodate both you and your pax.
Paul: I have a road bike and am familiar with the fitting process. As noted in the original posting, the bike that the Yepp is on currently seems to be about as long as top tubes get on conventional bicycles.
I recommend trikes. 6’3″ riders are not problem with Christiania Bikes and kids love it. You’ll love it too as you can always talk with the kids and they have room to play or sleep.
Only downside: you can’t really go faster than 8 miles per hour
http://humofthecity.com/2012/08/16/we-tried-it-christiania-and-nihola-cargo-tricycles/
Or you could invest in one of these “mamachari” (papachari?) bicycles from Japan, where the child seat is integrally placed atop the steering stem. Works wonders.
http://www.japancycling.org/v2/info/bikesj/mamachari.shtml
http://www.citylab.com/commute/2012/10/bicycle-seats-you-plus-two-childen-if-youre-okay/3681/
Else the Danes (and the Dutch) have quite a few models of child-carrier-centered bikes (also dogs & cargo,) e.g.
http://humofthecity.com/2012/08/16/we-tried-it-christiania-and-nihola-cargo-tricycles/
@ianf: it is easy to over look a major issue with a 2 wheeler bicycle such a bike: the extra weight the driver has to balance.
Having all that load on a bicycle (2 wheeler) makes it hard to balance when you make a turn or come to a full stop. If the angle of title on the bicycle is over some degree, let us say 15 degree (it varies somewhat from driver to driver), holding the bike up straight is very difficult. Even if you are strong and can fight it to hold it together, there is a good chance the tires will slip under you.
Depending on price sensitivity perhaps you are seeking an electric-assist bike like this one. It’s somewhat heavy but the electric assist makes riding one fun. Reviews I’ve seen are pretty good.
We went on another ride today and I found that if I slid all the way back in the saddle I was less likely to hit my knees. So in theory it might be possible to get a long-ish seat and push it as far back as it will go, thereby effectively lengthening the top tube.
It seems like there’s no point in getting a different bike because the kid will very rapidly outgrow this seat. How long can you ride with the kid up there? Another year? 2 yrs? Beside being physically too big (and wanting to pedal his own device) you also have the issue that was mentioned above – the heavier the kid gets the more this shifts your center of gravity upward and makes the bike more tilt prone.
2 yrs ago I somehow (on a clear dry paved bike path and without hitting any obstacle) went off my bike and landed on my wrist , thereby snapping my radius and ulna clean in half. I had ridden a bike for almost 1/2 a century at that point without an accident but that day my number was up. I now have 2 lovely stainless steel plates and a dozen stainless screws holding my arm together. (For some reason people always ask if I set off metal detector at the airport – the answer is no). I still ride but I have a newfound respect for the amount of damage you can cause on a bike. If I had a little kid I would bond in some different way not involving unenclosed moving vehicles.
You don’t want a new bike…you want the kid behind you. Yepp makes a nice quick-release version that will hold your kid in place in case of a crash. My two-year-old fell over in it once and no scrapes or bumps.
I used to put the smallest kid in the yepp behind me and pull the other two in a trailer. Good workout and free coaches. For one kid I would recommend just the yepp.
Thanks, Sam. The Yepp Maxi (https://www.aikatrading.com/store/yepp-maxi ) seems to have a lot less side protection than http://www.blackburndesign.com/copilot/limo.html (same general idea/position).
The traditional Dutch way (before everyone got obsessed with safety and huge impractical cargo bikes) is to mount the child seat in front of the handlebars, like here and here.
I’d probably avoid the glass contraption from the 1920s, but people tend to forget that kids are really resilient, and tend to recover from falls a lot better than adults do.
Would raising the kid seat a couple of inches solve the problem? Then a combination of longest obtainable handlebar stem raised as high as safely possible would help.
The old “figure 7” shaped stems (without the adjustable hinge shown here) would also allow the seat to be mounted higher. But you’d need one that can accommodate your existing handlebar. Oh, you’re in Boston, so why not check out the internet’s most famous bike shop to solve your problem (won’t mention the name, but google the dearly departed Sheldon Brown).
I know someone using rear-mounted Topeak Baby Seat II. Seems to be OK – quite tall, not too heavy. http://www.topeak.com/products/child-carrier/tpk_babyseat
Also, I recently went through changing handlebars on a bike – doing it is quite easy, although you have a better chance of finding the right geometry bars online than at bike shops.
I’ve often carried one or two of my children on my bike; the small ones get strapped into a seat at the back over the carrier, and if I’ve got a larger child (and a shortish distance) the bigger passenger rides side-saddle on the crossbar. Any luggage gets tied to the back of the small child’s seat.
Dear Philip-
Thank you for trying the Yepp mini child bike seat. Your little traveller looks very happy! The Mini position is, in fact, the traditional Dutch way to ride around with small children and a wonderful way for babies to enjoy their first rides with mom or dad.
As you know, there are many styles and sizes of bikes available and Yepp products work for over 95% of adult bikes; if you are hesitant to mount the child on the handlebar and the child is over 20lbs, the maxi rear mounted child seat is an excellent alternative (http://www.aikatrading.com/yepp/maxi/) The Yepp maxi is typically better for taller riders where longer legs can be impeded by the mini. You suggested getting handlebars that swoop back so the rider isn’t reaching too much – we highly suggest this. Yepp seats are designed for Dutch bikes with vertical riding positions and many American bikes are produced with more forward riding position, therefore these swoop back, “mustache” handlebars remedy most posture and visibility issues. Additionally, we wanted to point out that Yepp does also have an alternate fitting system for threadless/A-head stems.
Regarding safety, Yepp child bike seats are made of flexible EVA rubber material–similar to Crocs shoes. The advantage here is it’s inherent shock absorbing capabilities (not to mention comfortable, anti-microbial, waterproof and high insulation factor so they won’t get too hot or cold for the child). Yepp seats meet stringent European safety requirements and exceed the American ASTM standards. While some alternative seats appear to be more enclosed, they are merely surrounding the child with more hard plastic, rather than a shock-absorbing shell and solid, frame. In addition, Yepp seats have unique 5-point safety harnesses, compared too most three point ones, which therefore rely on more outer plastic shell coverage for safety. In a crash the Yepp mini seat puts the larger adult in a position to absorb most of the impact from a fall and, as a parent, being closer is reassuring and allows the ability to move to protect the child.
One final thing to point out regarding safety is that besides a high-quality, well-designed and safe seat like Yepp, a good fitting, quality helmet also needs to be chosen wisely for both the parent and the child.
We hope you and your adorable son enjoy many more rides down the road!
The Aika Team
Ah, yes, the European (nonathletic) bike posture, sitting bolt upright, if at all possible with “pretzel” handlebars. I’ve been told in all earnestness by a small-town bicycle rental lady that the front brake is never to be used, because it will lead to a dive-over-the-handlebars crash. As it will, indeed, without the “leaning forward” posture that allows you to absorb significant deceleration without your weight shifting forward uncontrollably. So “safe” braking is rear wheel only, that ceases to be effective (by skidding) as soon as your weight starts to shift. But rant mode off now 🙂
What those Europeans do get right is the behind-the-saddle child seating. The seat that friends had (and I briefly tried with my own youngster) was mounted to the seatpost only, and had very good suspension behaviour due to springiness in the rods. It was also high enough and with good harness to protect the (helmeted) child in almost any conceivable crash scenario.