Our family’s 2007 Infiniti (Nissan) has hit 85,000 miles and all of the advanced systems that seemed like a good idea at the time are failing. Perhaps it is time for a 2018 car.
Here are some requirements…
- should be a reasonably roomy sedan (Accord/Camry size would be ideal)
- hatchback would be a plus for fitting in bulky strollers
- hybrid with at least 25 miles of electric range would be nice
- should not be a virtue-signalling brand or design (i.e., cannot be a Tesla or a Prius)
- should not be a wealth-signalling brand such as BMW, Mercedes, et al.
We could probably get by with an all-electric car, but I’m worried that keeping track of its charge state would become another task in an already overloaded household (kids, dog, grandparents, etc.). With the hybrid if we forget to charge it we can still drive it. Also, we don’t have a functional garage or any kind of power outlet near the driveway other than a conventional 15A 115V.
We’re surrounded by smug people who plaster their cars with bumper stickers exhorting fellow citizens to think and vote virtuously (think “Prius with bumper stickers professing love for Obama and Hillary and hatred for Trump”). We don’t want anyone to think that we’re judging them, trying to persuade them, etc. So the car should just look like a car.
One idea: Honda Clarity plug-in hybrid. It has a 47-mile electric range (25 miles in the Massachusetts winter?). It looks like an Accord or Civic (but uglier?). I think that it is a hatchback, but of course it would be marketing death for Honda to promote that.
Readers: Better ideas?
Not a plugin, but Porsche Panamera? There is a fuck you money version, and a slightly above normal luxury car version. Seems to get good reviews.
Justin: The stripper Porsche hybrid is $100,000! (see https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/panamera/panamera-e-hybrid-models/ ). That’s enough to buy four airworthy four-seat Pipers or Cessnas and start our own flight school.
Also, I think that we do want something that can run for at least 25 miles on pure electric (actual 25-mile range in real-world hot or cold conditions so maybe 30+ advertised plug-in range?).
Even though it’s retro tech, Honda seems to have their act together with fuel-efficient gas engines. When I upgraded from my 2011 electric-hybrid Insight to a 2017 Civic Touring, I was startled to discover the new car has better gas mileage, even though it’s a significantly larger car. I frequently get 40+ MPG on my mostly-freeway commute, yet it still has plenty of power and acceleration.
Since you’re not into smug-signalling, it may be worth some back-of-the-envelope calculations to see if the extra cost of electric tech actually pays off vs. just buying a modern (very) fuel efficient gas car.
PhilG: You can get a $60K Preowned 2016 from what I’ve seen, that’s ALMOST the same as a $40K Lexus/Toyota though with those you get new.
For $100K you can get a nice J model Mooney with G530W.
That Honda is fine.
A used or new Chevy Volt is also good.
This may be too large for your needs, but Chrysler makes a Pacifica plug-in hybrid minivan with 33 electric miles.
Car and Driver mag has some fine suggestions and tests
https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/ioniq
The Chevy Volt lokks a little too small.
Go total electric in a Tesla, but balance out the virtue-signalling with a bumper sticker: “My Other Car is a PC12”.
Get a Tesla anyway. When your partner is old enough to qualify for unlimited alimony & takes it away under family law, you won’t have to worry about being virtuous.
This ought to be real easy. Your given criteria narrows the field to about <10 cars. We love my 2010 Prius and my 2005 Prius. We get 45-50 mpg mixed, and very low maintenance. Signaling be damned. 🙂
I really don’t understand why you would let a bumper sticker someone else put on a car affect your decision about buying the same model car.
For instance: Honda Accord EX-L, $29K, Honda Clarity: $59K.
$30K savings / gas @ $4/gal = 7500 Gal * 40 MPG = 300,000 miles of transportation.
Most people give up on a car after 100-200K miles, so even if your Clarity uses no gas and electricity is free, the Accord is still a better deal.
I spent some time recently in a Ford Fusion Energi (hybrid) that might meet your criteria. All the modern conveniences including Sync and Andoid / Apple smartphone inegration. Biggest downsides are the batteries steal significant trunk room and I found the seats were not great for longish road trips. Otherwise, a comfortable, quiet and efficient car that signals only frugality and a desire to blend in.
@Neal, since you’re more open minded – do you buy the same model truck that the bulls testicles hang from?
GermanL: No, I live in the city and don’t need a truck for work. But then, my family’s second car is a 20 year old hand me down.
The new 2018 Accord looks interesting but not out yet. The display system has been upgraded and includes Apple Play. The battery is under the rear seat so the trunk is the same as a non-hybrid. Better than the 2017 model.
Volt.
J. Peterson: I hope that the Clarity Hybrid we’re consdiering is not $59,000. Perhaps that is the price of the pure battery-powered Clarity?
Neal: “I really don’t understand why you would let a bumper sticker someone else put on a car affect your decision about buying the same model car.” The idea that, in American society, the brand and model of the car doesn’t tell you anything about the owner’s personality is an interesting one. However, I don’t think it is widely shared. So if we were to show up at someone’s house in a Prius, for example, I think that our hosts might fear that we would begin to scold them regarding their recycling habits, their level of passion for Hillary Clinton, their continued operation of a pavement-melting SUV, etc.
Senorpablo: The Volt does look good. And as U.S. taxpayers we’ve already paid thousands of dollars to keep GM going. However, we are looking for something closer to mid-size.
“So if we were to show up at someone’s house in a Prius, for example, I think that our hosts might fear that we would begin to scold them regarding their recycling habits, their level of passion for Hillary Clinton, their continued operation of a pavement-melting SUV, etc.”
If this is really a concern, perhaps you need new friends and not a new car. I have been in all manner of social and work situations with people who drive cars ranging from Prius to trucks with hanging bull testicles and many different mixtures and permutations thereof and I have never heard someone scold another person’s recycling habits or usage of a pavement-melting SUV. While I have seen and engaged in a few heated political discussions in my day, I’ve never seen anything which could be characterized as a “scolding” on HRC or any other political topic either.
Volt back seat is small so probably not for you. But for others, Volts take a terrific depreciation hit so you can get a 3 year old Volt with maybe 20K miles for less than half the cost of a new one. Assuming that most of those miles are electric, the gas engine will have very few hours on it and will be essentially brand new.
If you are paying full price for a new hybrid, they very rarely make any sense – you will never get back the extra $ you spend for the hybrid on gas savings, at least not as long as gas is $2.50/gallon. And in the long run, the hybrid has more stuff to break – the battery pack will wear out, etc. so the life cycle cost will be higher even if you save on gas. Even if you sell before the stuff breaks, the cost of future repairs is priced into (lowers) the resale value of the vehicle.
If you are looking for vehicle bargains and keep your vehicle for a long time, it’s a good idea to get a leftover 2017. If the car has been used as a demo and has a few hundred miles on it,that also cuts the price considerably. Last year around this time we got a leftover demo Hyundai Genesis (now known as Genesis G80) for a HUGE discount off of list (I paid Camry $ for a luxury sedan). Since the car was never titled, it gets sold as a new car with full factory warranty. In circumstances like this, the factory participates in the loss – dealers don’t make all that much on a car so even if they cut their price to “invoice” it doesn’t get you very far. But the factory incentives can be in the thousands. The downside is that you may have to take what you can get in terms of color & options but picking my own color was not worth thousands of $ to me. Sometimes the 2018 is an all new model (in which case it’s not a good idea to buy the 1st production year) but most of the time it’s just the same car carried over with a few minor changes and 10 years from now the values won’t be appreciably different (they will both be worth very little).
I should also add that 85,000 miles/10 years is not all that much in a modern car. Even if you have to put a couple of thousand of $ into it, it’s still cheaper than spending $30K+ on a whole new car. Unless the car has something drastically wrong with it, it will almost always be cheaper to keep it going.
However, it is important to find a good independent mechanic and not get the car fixed at the stealership. Also to fix small things yourself. A few years ago my MIL broke the glass in her side view mirror. I went with her to the local Lexus dealer and they told us that the entire power assembly and housing would have to be replaced, so it was over $500 for the part and another $500 for labor or something ridiculous like that. I went on ebay and found the glass part being sold from a junkyard and it ended up being under $100 and I snapped it in myself. Multiply this by 2 or 3 minor repairs per year and this makes the difference between it being affordable to keep an older vehicle and not. For stuff that is too complex for me (and, BTW there are youtube videos for almost any car repair – I’m not suggesting that you rebuild your own transmission, but stuff like changing the air filters is well within almost anyone’s capability). I have an arrangement with my mechanic where I source the parts online and he charges me for only his labor.
We have a Ford Fusion energi 2014. It’s a nice car with a massive battery between the back seats and the trunk. Actually they take most of the trunk. This means you cannot fit a normal-size stroller in the trunk. Even large loads of groceries can be a problem. All of the weight means you must use the oem Michelin tires on the rear wheels or they will wear down in 12,000 miles! Stereo is nice. Bluetooth is nice. Rear view camera is nice. It rides Very well on the freeway, on winding mountain roads (a huge concern in Cambridge, I know) it’s OK but not great. It gets about 30 miles per charge with climate control. Less in the harsh costal California winter. The big benefits for California were the green sticker and you don’t have to smog it. It’s been very reliable, never been in for service, I’ve been able to do all of the maintenance myself. 20 weight motor oil is a real pain to change yourself. It would be a great family car if you took the hybrid power train out of it.
What is the point of buying a hybrid. The TCO comparison does not work out. Maybe it does if you mostly do rush-hour style stop-and-go driving.
85,000 miles is not a lot for a modern sedan. Unless the electronics that are on the fritz are linked to the drive-train I would just rip those toys out as they break. (You can also get better than hybrid efficiency by ripping out all the half dozen heavy airbags.)
@philg: all of the advanced systems that seemed like a good idea at the time are failing.
There are no advanced systems in my ’01 Ford Taurus, unless you consider the electric fuel pump inside the gas tank which I had to replace for $900 at 115K mi. The vehicle only has 125K mi on it but mileage doesn’t accumulate very rapidly when my daily commute is 3 miles roundtrip! Six if I go home for lunch.
@Jackie: I went on ebay and found the glass part being sold from a junkyard
My ’08 Honda Ridgline w/ 50K miles just blew the ABS modulator. Now my dashboard is lit up like a Christmas tree. The power breaks still work as usual, just no ABS feature. The dealer wants $1200 installed for a new modulator. Ebay offers used ABS modulators for less than $200 and the dealer will install it for $100, of course no warranty.
@Neal: I have never heard someone scold another person’s recycling habits or usage of a pavement-melting SUV.
I suspect that your network is not as broad as you think it is. Or, maybe it is, and you just don’t watch network news or read the NYT.
Comfortably Numb: My comment was limited to a person directly scolding another person about these issues face to face. Of course, people do sometimes say things which might make a person with different opinions uncomfortable. I haven’t done a scientific study of those individual’s vehicle preferences, but I don’t think the behavior is limited to or even biased towards Prius drivers. In my experience, it certainly isn’t limited to or biased towards people of any one political persuasion.
Check out the massively under-rated Ford C-Max Energi. It’s a pretty standard-looking hatchback, and unlike the Prius, it is designed to be used like a normal car and is actually fun to drive – zippy in electric mode with a great ride. It has 20-22 miles of electric range and about 550 miles range with gas and electric. A tall cabin means its great for headroom. The only downside IMHO is its battery takes up quite a bit of trunk space (though it also makes a nice shelf).
Bobby: “What is the point of buying a hybrid. The TCO comparison does not work out. Maybe it does if you mostly do rush-hour style stop-and-go driving.”
Thanks to the miracle of population growth and American inability to build infrastructure, including highways, nearly all of our driving here in the Boston area is “stop-and-go”. Rush hour is now from about 3:30 pm to 7:30 pm on weekdays and occurs during unpredictable times on weekends.
A plug-in hybrid appeals to us because, for the typical trips, we wouldn’t be polluting our local environment (the increased demand for electricity, of course, would probably cause some pollution elsewhere; I don’t think there are any new hydro or nuclear plants). We don’t mind if the purchase is slightly irrational economically given that nobody would be taxing us for polluting the local environment (though, of course, it would be a lot more efficient if there were a tax on tailpipe emissions!).
I drove a rented VW conventional-engine Passat for a week in Vermont and it handled very nicely. The traction control kept the car steady after a rainstorm turned one stretch of road into a hydro-plane-inducing shallow lake. The trunk was surprisingly roomy.
They have discontinued their hybrid line, but they make an all-electric Golf hatchback.
You cannot beat it as a anti-virtue-signaler. They lie about pollution and their populist roots are baked into the brand name.
You can produce no emissions while signaling your disdain for pollution control; all while driving a brand started by the original Fuhrer, and still loved by hippies.
It’s a graduate seminar in Semiotics before you even back it out of the driveway.
Love my 2017 Chevy Volt!
List: $42,000
Net cost after Mass Save discount, MA rebate and Federal tax credit: ~$22k
Such a deal!
No one has mentioned the Audi A3 e-tron? Seems to meet most of your criteria, and it’s the lowest-status Audi you can buy.
Comfortably Numb – The ABS modulator on my Audi went. The factory part includes BOTH the electronic module and the hydraulic part as a unit (even though they are 2 distinct pieces) and so it was big $ (It’s been a while so I don’t remember exactly how much but it wasn’t cheap). And even more for labor because you had to open the brake lines. I found some guy on ebay who rebuilds the modules for like $100 . You remove the electronic part (IIRC not difficult except I think you had to take out the windshield washer tank because Audis are made with zero consideration to repairability) and mail it to the guy and he rebuilds it and mails it back to you. In the meantime your brakes work normally except there is no ABS but you didn’t have ABS already at that point. He claimed that the rebuilt unit was better than new because he replaced the failed part (usually there is one weak part – a bad cap or something) with a better one that would not fail again (whereas the factory units were still the same) and indeed it never failed again.
‘should not be a virtue-signalling brand or design’
Since when do you care what other people think?
Just curious about your desired size (sounds like 5 passengers). Do you have another vehicle in the household? Seems like a minivan would be a better fit (that Chrysler Pacifica got good early reviews). Or maybe family car trips are a thing of the past?
Arr Dub: Since when does a human care what other humans think? Probably since birth. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_animal
John: We already have a minivan, a Honda Odyssey. And with grandparents we occasionally get close to the 8-passenger maximum. The Pacifica does look tempting and I guess since our lease on the Odyssey is almost up it would be worth seeing what the lease rates are on the Pacific Hybrid. But regardless of the minivan decision we still need a regular car to replace our regular (10-year-old) car.
Check out the Hyundais and Kias…great cars. My cheap little Kia Soul is the best car I’ve ever owned. And I’ve owned dozens.