There is now apparently a debate about undocumented immigrants who came to the U.S. as “minors” and now want to stay permanently and/or become citizens. The Wikipedia page on the DREAM Act says “They were younger than 18 years old on the date of their initial entry to the United States” and, confusingly, “Have proof of having arrived in the United States before age 16.” There is also “Be between the ages of 12 and 35 at the time of bill enactment.”
My dumb question for today… if these folks are undocumented how would anyone be able to establish their ages? Why would they have birth certificates, for example?
[And why is 16 or 18 the cut-off for “minor”? Under New York family law, for example, a plaintiff parent can get “child support” revenue until the subject of the original lawsuit turns 21. In Massachusetts the cut-off age is 23. Why is someone a “child” when an adult plaintiff wants to get paid, but not a “minor” for purposes of immigration?]
Two things…
(1) The DREAM Act DOES NOT EXIST. It was not passed by congress or signed into law. It is not law. It is a “dream” on the part of democrats hoping to legalize a foreign underclass to vote for them and idiot republicans like Lindsey Graham willing to go along with it.
(2) What we have is an unconstitutional executive order by the Obama Regime to refuse to enforce immigration law on their favorite subset of ILLEGAL ALIENS. This Deferred Action is not law, it is a refusal to faithfully execute the office of the President of the USA and is set to expire in March 2018.
No, there is no way of proofing jack shit. It’s an honor system doomed to be abused and violated by unscrupulous and unlawful individuals which ILLEGAL ALIENS are BY DEFINITION.
Are all these simply rhetorical questions?
(If not, why do you think all this is outcome of some very logical decision making process? What fraction the government, if any, operates that way?)
Howto tell the age?
Due diligence?
Use German precision?
https://voiceofeurope.com/2017/12/germany-afghan-teen-refugee-who-raped-and-murdered-german-girl-is-actually-33-years-old/
As a guideline here’s the fastest “14 year old” in Sweden, an immigrant who dominated his school’s athletic events. In the article he’s pictured with this schoolmates (he’s the tall one with beard and mustache stubble):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422000/Just-old-think-migrant-children-Alarming-pictures-shed-light-growing-scandal-amid-asylum-crisis.html
There are forensic tests based on X-ray, CT scan, MRI and ultrasonic examinations to analyze bones of the hands, carpal bones, teeth, or collarbones. These of course can’t tell you the exact birthday, but detect grossly wrong allegations. Things you learn these days in the news, I have no medical background.
Avoided at all costs, of course, in Germany. Everybody is welcome. Except party poopers.
Calling these people undocumented doesn’t mean that they are not in possession of any documents at all. They may have birth certificates or passports from their home countries. It’s only green cards that they lack.
The term “undocumented” is a nasty piece of doublespeak – a verbal act of violence against human solidarity. Your patriarchal act of exogenous neologism is an embodiment of oppressive rape culture. Instead of beating the bodies of “the other,” you strip their very beings of true identity.
There is documentation of their date of birth in their countries of birth.
Mexican consulates in America have had a well-documented process for quickly issuing copies of birth certificates to their citizens for over two years.
It is easier for a Mexican in America to get a copy of his birth certificate than it is for an American.
“The term “undocumented” is a nasty piece of doublespeak – a verbal act of violence against human solidarity. ”
So we should call them “Illegal alien” instead?
exogenous neologism
What is it exogenous to? Also, the term has been around for a long time, so it can’t really be considered neo.
I say If you like your illegal aliens you should be able to keep your illegal aliens!
A good lawyer I met in California is willing to certify that any particular alien has entered the US illegally in the period from 1900 through 2025. She is willing to provide an evidence of the said illegal entry, including the footprints as well as a signed deposition from the US Border Patrol.
She is also willing to help re-classify any legal immigrant as an illegal border crosser and an immediate candidate to the US citizenship hearing, as long as they are willing to state under the oath (a legal translation will be provided for an extra fee) where exactly they crossed the US border.
@M
Who would pay for that?
@Viking:
Don’t we all do? We as a nation prefer to see this as an issue of race (or rather racism) and not as an illegal act.
As for the legal immigration, please someone tell them that resources are limited. Let that stupid Caltech PhD rather go to Australia: they are not a true minority anyway as they never protest.
Sarcasm off. 🙂
Vince: If a DREAMer has a birth certificate showing that he or she is ineligible for legal immigration, why does this birth certificate get voluntarily shown to a government official?
Mememe: “There is documentation of their date of birth in their countries of birth. Mexican consulates in America have had a well-documented process for quickly issuing copies of birth certificates to their citizens for over two years.”
Why would someone who is “undocumented” be using the same name as on his or her original birth certificate? Also, names are not unique. If a DREAMer never received a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identification_number in his or her home country, and/or this ID number is not known to U.S. authorities for some reason, how would a birth certificate ever become available without the initiative of the prospective DREAMer? At which point, why would a DREAMer with an IQ over 80 ever produce a birth certificate indicating ineligibility?
If a DREAMer has a birth certificate showing that he or she is ineligible for legal immigration, why does this birth certificate get voluntarily shown to a government official?
It’s not a new phenomenon. It’s like many other programs. If a person has a document that shows that he’s ineligible to participate, he probably won’t show it to a government official. That’s beside the point. If someone can’t substantiate their eligibility claim, they won’t get the green card. Since DACA has been around for a few years, the government been handling claims of this type for some time. It’s specified here:
https://www.uscis.gov/archive/consideration-deferred-action-childhood-arrivals-daca
These questions should cause us to consider others. If the government wants to deport someone who has burned all of his documents, how do they determine where to send the guy?
philg: The DREAMers are here, and have been here for some time. Our policy choices, roughly speaking, are (1) create some bureaucratic process for formally recognizing and making permanent their de facto status in US society, (2) deport them all, or (3) continue with some version of the status quo. You seem to be arguing that there are technical difficulties with (1) which mean the process will be imperfect. Duh. The same or similar challenges exist for choices (2) or (3). So what is your point?
Vince: Thanks for that link. It seems as though our government isn’t interested in seeing a foreign-issued birth certificate. There isn’t even a category in https://www.uscis.gov/archive/consideration-deferred-action-childhood-arrivals-daca#guidelines for “proof of birthdate” or “proof of age”. If the DREAMer has given birth in the U.S., one thing that can be used to confirm DREAMer status is “Birth certificates of children born in the U.S.”
Vince: How to deport someone who won’t cooperate by producing a passport? Check out https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/trail/etc/canada.html
where the Canadian official said that of course they couldn’t deport Ahmed Ressam without his assistance.
Why was Ahmed Ressam not deported?
Bottom line, we couldn’t get travel documents. We cannot put somebody on a plane and and out of the country unless we have travel documents, and that’s a big challenge … People who come here and who are evading detection don’t cooperate in getting travel documents, so we don’t have the identification we need. It’s a big challenge for my department.
(This turned out to be a smart move for the Canadians because Mr. Ressam is now living at U.S. taxpayer expense. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Ressam for how he will be a Colorado resident for at least a while)