I got on the subway at the Broadway-Lafayette stop where Jordan Neely died (Wikipedia). At Houston and Broadway, a block west of the station:
Some photos the station (note the fancy new credit card reader that can collect a fare from a standard Visa card):
I’m wondering if there has been any clarity yet regarding what happened and whether Daniel Penny acted reasonably or criminally. It seemed as though there was a rush to judgment. For example, Ron DeSantis, 1,100 miles by road from the station:
Note that this was from his personal Twitter account, not the official Florida governor’s feed. I’m wondering how Mr. DeSantis can know whether Mr. Penny was indeed a “Good Samaritan”. He posted just 12 days after the death of Mr. Neely. (Also, why does he want to get involved in this? If New Yorkers are brawling on the subway, sometimes with fatal consequences, that’s actually helpful to Florida’s economy. If New York prosecutors are being unfair and unjust toward Mr. Penny that’s not a Florida problem that the Florida governor should be worried about. (If the Florida governor wanted to crusade against injustice there are plenty of places around the world that offer more compelling examples.))
What’s actually been learned in the three weeks since the unfortunate event?
Separately, when does the station get renamed to honor Jordan Neely’s memory? (Or, if not the station then perhaps the entire New York City Subway system?)
I don’t know if there’s been any clarity, but I’d like to know what the autopsy reports were whether he died of asphyxiation or whether he died of a heart attack. In the beginning, I could see it both ways that he was either a hero or it was manslaughter. This is part of the problem with intervening with anyone who’s violent – you don’t know how far you’re going to have to push things in order to subdue that person.
Serious competition with all the new yorkers who want to rename everything Greenspun. Louis Rossmann recommends avoiding the subway & riding a bike.
The video I saw wasn’t pretty: Penny had Neely in some form of a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu stranglehold, with two other men around. I don’t see how Neely was a danger at that point.
Also, in Jiu Jitsu the person in the stranglehold can tap on the floor and you have to let him go immediately. There is a reason for that.
I don’t want to repeat Ron DeSantis’s mistake (in my view) of rushing to judgment, but when I heard that this guy was being held by three people for 15 minutes it made me suspicious that any heroes will emerge. I don’t have the stomach to watch the video.
Perhaps if someone with handcuffs had shown up to take control of the situation, the good Samaritans wouldn’t have had to rely on a chokehold for a full 15 minutes.
Steve: In the 30-60s I saw, Neely was on the ground in a secure choke-hold. It was surreal. No one spoke or made any attempt to defuse the situation. Neely moved in the grip, but more in despair and not forcefully, also silent.
Why didn’t the other two guys suggest to tie up his hands in exchange for letting him go?
To be fair, Penny did not seem aggressive either. It is possible that he had no clue how dangerous this grip is, which is odd if he’s a Marine.
Just Jordan Neely’s name on the wall? What about the 130+ beings [1] (so far this year) that were murdered in NYC? Are those other lives not worthy to be mentioned by the news and have their story told on Wikipedia?
[1] https://compstat.nypdonline.org/2e5c3f4b-85c1-4635-83c6-22b27fe7c75c/view/89
In my first introductory jiu jitsu class last week, my training partner was practicing a choke hold on me and squeezed a little too tight. My throat has been sore and my voice raspy ever since.
There seems to be a large percentage of American’s who live in a constant state of fear and paranoia. Obsession with guns is one symptom of this. The term “snowflake” is classic projection by the right. Republicans love the idea that anyone who is in a state of fear can do anything to alleviate that fear, whether it’s rational or not. Because they’re afraid. So, like so many other examples, they’ll defend this burly ex-marine for killing someone who did no physical harm to anyone, but may have been frightening to some. It’s a form of thought crime, where if someone simply believed they might be in danger, anything goes–especially if you’re an “upstanding” white guy.
@Senorpablo, you may be right, but Democrats and the Woke love to make National news for this 1 out of 100+ killings when the killing suits them. I guess to them it is acceptable when color-folks kill color-folks but it is not OK when non-color-folks kill color-folks. Care to explain?
See my post on this topic of “May 23, 2023 at 6:21 pm”.
Senorpablo: Are you sure that it was “Republicans” who restrained and ultimately killed Mr. Neely? My understanding is that there were three people involved. What are the odds of three NYC subway riders all identifying as Republican? (especially after 2020-2022 in which people who disagreed with lockdowns, school closures, mask orders, and vaccine papers checks moved away from NYC)
(The media isn’t bothering to cover the other two subway riders in depth, but Daniel Penny was not a registered Republican. See https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/14/nyregion/daniel-penny-jordan-neely-conservative.html for how he was affiliated with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_of_New_York_State )
Senorpablo: In the video, one of the two guys watching the choke hold was Black (which is probably why the press won’t cover them). He did not intervene.
Penny is some country-bumpkin/yokel who has no idea what’s normal on a New York City subway. You can’t go around putting every crazy person in New York in a chokehold. Just like you can’t shoot someone who comes up to your door by mistake or who drives up your driveway by mistake. I’m a pro-Trump right-wing MAGA Republican, and I’m so disappointed at conservative media for turning this crazed murderer into some sort of hero. I see no indication that he was racially motivated at all either, so as usual the liberal media also gets it wrong.
– autopsy concluded he died from the choke hold the ex marine put him in and concluded it was a homicide (sorry I can never remember which one is Neely and which is Penny)
– ex marine charged with involuntary homicide but is out on bail
-ny post ran a profile of the ex marine, a Long Island surfer who traveled throughout Latin America and seems grounded and zen (I am not commenting on the case or his actions except to say seems he will not appear unhinged on the stand but in fact relatable)
*involuntary manslaughter
I have mixed feelings about this; I traveled NYC subway in the past and did not have vicious encounters, sometimes crazy folks on drugs stimulated my problem resolution process moving me away from thinking stupor. Once a juiced-up dude wanted my shopping bags with nobody among large crowd of regular travelers – tough New Yorkers around giving us as much as a glance but the dude promptly retreated when I resisted, that about it.
But practically prosecuting this ex-marine dude may open new season on subway travelers.
I do not understand why the ex-marine used chocking hold. There are other holds and levers that anchor the opponent decisively (and painfully) and will not totally block nor long-term damage air passages, maybe dislocate a bone or break a join at worst. Better to deal with such legal issues then take god-given soul without having overwhelming causes to do so.
perplexed: I took three subway rides during my recent stay in NYC. Going uptown from the Village to A Doll’s House (where #NewYorkStrong audience members were warned about content that they might not be strong enough to handle) we were approached by a middle-aged guy asking for money. My hosts gave him a few dollars, so he knew his market. (I’m not sure how this professional is sustainable. Do any young people carry cash?)