On a group chat, a young friend talked about dating a 24-year-old “Nazi”. On what basis did she merit being lumped in with Donald Trump? “She said that she’d moved to [Mountain West state] because ‘it isn’t very diverse and I like that.'”
The young “Nazi” was a traditionalist, who wanted the man to pay for everything when on a date and also wanted the man to choose the restaurants and activities. She also said that she wouldn’t have sex prior to marriage.
An older participant in the chat noted “Sex is a statistically rare event after marriage, so what she’s really saying is that she doesn’t want to have sex ever.”
Another member of the younger subgroup within the chat mentioned his engagement. This prompted a reminder that “Jeff Bezos would be the richest person in the world right now if he hadn’t married the secretary.”
Speaking of dating, those wanting to make a strong first impression might consider this interior color choice:
The Aston Martin above, the epitome of British understatement, was parked at the “International Polo Club Palm Beach” (which is, of course, not in Palm Beach). One of the songs played for Rolls-Royce-driving spectators was Gretchen Wilson’s “Redneck Woman”, in which she sings about preferring beer to Champagne. At halftime, nonetheless, spectators who ventured out onto the field to stomp divots were served free Champagne and no beer was available.
After expressing sympathy to the father above that his babe-in-arms was too young to receive a COVID-19 vaccine, I gave the guys below a lecture on the risks that they were taking by participating in this game. Even after I pointed out the increased transmissibility of Omicron, however, they rejected my offer of a stack of surgical masks from the minivan. I was, fortunately, able to deliver pamphlets on the dangers of second-hand ivermectin that are inherent in equestrian sports.
When everything degenerate isn’t just permitted but celebrated by your parents going trad wife is the only way to rebel. Plus they’ve seen the boomers and their failures, sure having five houses is nice, but five exwives and five half families aren’t worth it even if the boomer ride was still available.
Victory through tradlife. The kids have seen through babylon’s smokescreen of anti civilization behaviors.
GB: I don’t see how “tradlife” is an achievable individual goal if profitable no-fault (“unilateral” as the academics call it) divorce is available and there is no social stigma attached to having filed a divorce lawsuit. I can think of a guy who married an observant Roman Catholic, for example. He wasn’t sufficiently rich or high-income to present an irresistible target. So in theory he should have been set up for tradlife, right? She would have been opposed to divorce on religious grounds, yes? But, after some years of marriage with children, she converted to an evangelical Protestant Christian church and decided that she needed to be having sex with someone in her new church. So she became a successful divorce, custody, and child support plaintiff as was her right under the no-fault system.
A society could decide to embrace “tradlife”, but I don’t see how an individual can do it.
@Philg: > A society could decide to embrace “tradlife”, but I don’t see how an individual can do it.
They can, and they do. I have a couple of family members who have. They built the relationships before the sex. I don’t know for 100% sure if the sex actually occurred after the ceremonies, but they weren’t far from it, and both of those women are fabulously successful. In fact, one of them lives in a big northeastern city and when she tries, she’s a real “looker.” She spent almost 10 years finding a guy who wanted something other than a quick lay and access to her daddy’s bank account. So it can be done. You can use your hands!
As Long Duk Dong once said in a Tom Hanks movie: “There’s a lot to be said for playing with yourself!”
Kudos to your family members, Alex, but every day that they live in a society that supports no-fault divorce is a day that the tradlife could evaporate.
Suppose that Elon Musk came over your “looker” relative’s house and said “If you file a divorce lawsuit against your husband, I will marry you with no prenup and here’s a contract where I guarantee to give you $10 billion on the day that your divorce is final so that you know I am in earnest. Also, a stable of Teslas to drive, a battery truck to follow them around, while you’re litigating with the discarded man.” You’re 100% certain that the “looker” wouldn’t take that deal?
philg If they succumb to the frivorce culture they become the people they loath. The idea that no woman can resist frivorce and riding the (edit) carousal before hitting the wall of aging is false. Many of them can’t, but some can resist and more will. Especially as they see how well it worked out for their moms or other older women that took that ride and now have to take the trash out themselves.
The lie of feminism being a satisfying life path are being laid bare in the lives of cat ladies and wine aunts. Too late for many, but some of the youngins have noticed.
> You’re 100% certain that the “looker” wouldn’t take that deal?
No, I’m not 100% certain about most things in this world. I do know her pretty well, however, and she’s a very strong and principled person, so all I can say is: “I hope not. I don’t think so in her case. It would be a big surprise to me and a huge change in her character, based on my knowing her from literally the day she was born.” And I’m almost as sure about the other one.
There ARE people in this world who make decisions and stick to them, and who don’t try to retroactively justify themselves when they break their own covenants. It may be increasingly rare, but it still happens.
Alex: Your belief is something that has been explored by research psychologists. Unless your relatives’ situations have changed dramatically over the years, you’ve mostly seen them in the same situations over and over (e.g., Jeff Bezos not being available as a husband). So your belief that you understand their personalities at a deep level and can predict their behavior reliably in a new situation may be false.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mischel for example.
Actually you can see quite a bit of this in ordinary people. You think that you know your friends. They love to live in the city, go out several nights per week, socialize with adult friends, etc. Then they have children and they stop doing all of the things that you expected them to continue doing. They move to the suburbs. They never go out anymore. They might get together for a “playdate” with kids, but seldom socialize with adult friends, especially adult friends without similar-age children.
GB: I don’t doubt that it sometimes happens that two people who have both chosen “tradlife” will end up together and that both will stick to their “tradlife” goals and therefore that the partnership persists. I’m just saying that this is an accident of probability and not the result of an individual choice.
@Philg: I’m aware that my own bias affects my judgment here. All I can say right now is: “I really hope I’m right. I don’t want anyone to die early.” 😉
I don’t think this particular relative is over-impressed by money she didn’t work for, and she’s not a car collector. I don’t think she’d care about the materialism of your hypothetical.
However, I know that I can’t control other human beings, even those whom I’m closest to, and when they decide to change what they’re doing, particularly if they’ve always been strong-willed, they just do it and nothing can stop them. For now I’ll flip a coin and not tell myself the result until much later.
But I think it’s going to work out the way I said. I just have a strong feeling about it.
Alex: Coronapanic was a new situation. How good were you at predicting which of your friends and neighbors would agree to stay home for two years, submit meekly to school closures and mask orders, etc.? Suppose that you’d been asked in November 2019 how many teenagers and parents of 5th graders in Massachusetts would agree that it was virtuous to change their lives completely because of a virus that kills people at a median age of 82.
(My own predictive capability was nil. I would have expected certain people to be skeptical, but they turned out to be cheerful blind followers of anyone who claimed to be an authority.)
@Philg: November 2019 is a little early. I wouldn’t have been able to crystallize my thoughts about the virus then, but by March of 2020 I had a big argument with my father, who thought that the pandemic would be over by the end of that summer. He thought SARS-CoV-2 would be vanquished and disappear because of the summer heat and the vaccines that Moderna had already developed and were being tested by the NIH. Operation Warp Speed and the summer heat would end the damn thing by the winter of 2020. I was looking at the Chinese reaction to the virus on Drudge and hearing the vibrations of government here and I said to him:
“You are wrong. This virus and all its epiphenomena will be with us for years.”
After I got my Pfizer doses in March/April of 2021, we had almost the same argument. I told him: “This has become a Big Government/Big Industry/Higher Academic clusterfuck problem now, with entrenched interests, huge political ramificatons and tremendous inertia. Even longer. More years.”
These were angry arguments! He couldn’t believe I was so pessimistic, but I have a very good sense of how things work when huge governmental organs and academics across the fruited plain get together to “solve problems” — everything will take ten times longer than it should, and a lot of lies are going to be promulgated to cover up the bullshit and incompetence.
I don’t think it serves the governments of our world, as currently constructed, to end the pandemic. They have achieved unprecedented levels of control over not just the economies of their nations, but also individual behavior and freedom on an unprecedented scale. They don’t want to give that up and will resist ANYONE who attempts to take those powers away from them.
Also, I think the most important virus that had to be removed was Donald Trump, regardless of what it took. All the rest can be thought of as collateral damage in that campaign.
I remember your posts from November 2019 (IIRC) in Shanghai with the masks. By March of 2020 I knew we were going to be living with COVID for approximately the rest of my life, give or take (hopefully.) If I had known more about the virus in November ’19 I would have thought similarly.
This is the first Modern Global Governance Pandemic. The globalists want it controlled in a global way, which is why Sweden has been beaten like a redheaded stepchild for refusing to comply.
Philip, it is surprisingly how many people whom I regarded as traditional, traditionally moral and/or even conservatively boorish based on past intimate conversations respond to monetary and societal stimuli and social programming and become stringent ABCDLBTIFGQ++–**^^!! ser/zur/whatever supporters, propagandists and most of all new “virtue” signalers, independent of their IQ or many biases. Almost as reliably as in lab – controlled experiments on animal subjects
But I think it is a big mistake to think that this is universal. There is still large group of people that respect and preserve traditional values. They do exist and well aware of all societal intransitives to destroy their lives but they persist and prevail.
Also, as I’ve alluded to in the past: liberal middle class and upper middle class people covet one thing more than anything in this universe: SAFETY as guaranteed by the GOVERNMENT. There is nothing you cannot lie to these people about in the name of SAFETY. Just promise them that, and you’ve got it made. I’m being a bit glib here, but not much.
They all run to Authority, and the only Authority they know is the Government. That’s the new Western Secular Church.
perplexed: I too know lots of folks in Massachusetts who regularly attended Catholic church, for example, but when it became necessary for social and career purposes to celebrate 2SLGBTQQIA+, abortion, and other pillars of the Democrat faith would adopt these without noting the apparent contradiction with their Catholicism.
And, of course, I agree with you that there are quite a few traditionalists. I am just saying that it is not within an individual’s power to determine whether a chosen partner will stick with traditionalist values over the years or even from day to day (see above for how practicing Catholics were nimble in waving the official-for-Massachusetts rainbow flag; certainly they would have immediately become unemployed if they had mentioned at work that they were not on board with abortion at 36 weeks (legal under MA law) or the 2SLGBTQQIA+ lifestyle).
Alex: The Shanghai masks in November 2019 were because of air pollution, not fear of contagion. Unlike, say, the Japanese, the Chinese were not noted for being scrupulous about hygiene prior to COVID-19.
“certainly they would have immediately become unemployed if they had mentioned at work that they were not on board with abortion at 36 weeks (legal under MA law) or the 2SLGBTQQIA+ lifestyle)” Philip, I think if their work involves discussions about someones lifestyle they should start looking for honest work. I am quite curtain that if and after they were pressed on these issues they could give their hones opinion of they cared. I doubt that they were fired for their opinion if asked about it (not volunteered to express it), they could sue their employer for $$$ millions if fired.
Perplexed: Almost any job in Massachusetts would involve discussions about the magic of 2SLGBTQQIA+. Remember that there will be employer-sponsored rainbow flags and Pride Month events.
https://www.bcg.com/en-gb/press/16nov2017-bcg-giveout (“The Boston Consulting Group announced as founding sponsor of new global LGBT charity”). Imagine an employee saying “I think that we should give the money to a charity supporting poor people” or “I think we should give the money to the partners and employees and let them give the money to whatever charities they consider most important.”
The state’s largest private employer officially takes a pro-abortion position right on its web site. See https://www.brighamandwomens.org/obgyn/family-planning/family-planning-division
The Family Planning Division at Brigham and Women’s Hospital upholds a commitment to respecting women’s autonomy, including reproductive choice. … We respect and trust women and their families to make decisions that are right for them about whether to terminate a pregnancy
See https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2021/09/17/focusing-on-race-and-racism-just-makes-the-problem-worse-true-or-false/ for what an employee must agree with in order to keep his/her/zir/their job at this hospital.
Philip, I see. Anyway, employee is not required to fly a flag him/herself, and nobody can infringe on their personal opinion if they are pressed to share it.
But yes, if this brainwash is pervasive I see how someone of traditional self-worth can seek employment elsewhere.
Good for her. She’s also got access to the Internet and any number of sex therapists who can help her and her future husband have great sex once they’re married. I think it would be great if more women did this and their future husbands expected it and lived with it. The scumbags always talk this down as repressive sicko behavior but delayed gratification is a good thing. Take a year or two and figure out whether you really want to be with this person for a long time before you let them slide their thang into you and use you as a receptacle.
I could get more personal about this but I think it’s unnecessary.
If society offers no-fault divorce, and therefore there is nothing sacred or permanent about marriage, what is the rationale for the system you propose?
What is the difference, from your point of view, between being on a first date and being married? In both cases, the relationship could be unilaterally ended the next day, right?
(Under the typical US state’s law, there are differences, but they don’t relate to sexual relationships or sexual acts (unless a plaintiff seeks an enhanced cash payment by telling a tale of having been raped during the marriage).)
@Philg:
>If society offers no-fault divorce, and therefore there is nothing sacred or permanent about marriage, what is the rationale for the system you propose?
There is none! That’s why I’m a crazy person!
>What is the difference, from your point of view, between being on a first date and being married? In both cases, the relationship could be unilaterally ended the next day, right?
Like speed dating, right, but with fornication also? You hook up, just for the sex, and then a few minutes after the orgasm you look at their apartment and choice of music and clothes and habits of mind and so forth and say: “Thank you for our mutual use of our sex organs as pleasure devices. I can’t stand you. Bye!”
I don’t know, it just goes against everything I was ever taught. I’m an anachronism! I don’t even really exist in this world, I guess. I think that’s just terribly shallow and a huge loss for people who should decide whether they love each other before they fuck each other. I’ve always thought sleeping with people before getting to know them was an enormous sign of disrespect for them as people, just using them as gratification objects.
A lot of people do like it, though. It’s convenient, it gets the job done. It’s like Fast Food Sex and Love: you really don’t want to cook anything or wait for something good, but you crave that Big Mac and fries.
@Philg: What does it mean to have sex with someone you don’t even know and really have no interest in except for the pleasure? It’s a prostitution relationship, really. It’s a gay dance club with a back room where people put their organs into who knows what while doped up, drunk and listening to hard-driving electronica.
Do I have to attempt an exposition of why it might be better to try and understand a person as a human being before spreading one’s legs or ploppin’ it in ’em? I’m afraid I’m not that good as a poet, but I’ve always thought (probably incorrectly in most cases) that it takes a long time to really understand and appreciate another person.
Alex: Everything that you’re saying could be correct, but there is no support for it either in Massachusetts state law that applies to you and your neighbors or in mainstream American values. A plaintiff who is faithful in a marriage is entitled to the same family court profits as a plaintiff who spends the married years having sex with 50 neighbors and 100 Tinder friends. A person who follows your plan of waiting to have sex and then getting married and staying married (unclear how this plan can be achieved without a machine to control the mind of the spouse, but let’s say that it is achieved) is not considered an example for others to follow. Find me a successful politician who talks about such folks! If elected politicians instead talk about “single moms” then you can infer the moral/value system of the typical American voter.
@Philg: I thought the Shanghai masks were kind of a curiosity and even possibly a fashion statement or some kind of Chinese marital thing when I saw your post back then. I don’t think they were ever connected with COVID directly and certainly not predictive, but in hindsight I look back on them as a kind of harbinger. At that point I don’t think anyone in America even manufactured them! All those masks in China and now the Patriots are flying a plane to buy them!
It’s always been surprising to me that people like Mike Bloomberg never apparently saw the profit potential in mask manufacturing. He’s one guy who should have known! Take the $500 million he spent on his campaign and build some reserve pandemic mask manufacturing capacity instead. Bloomberg Masks!
Air pollution in China is the one problem that our media is not lying about! And the masks actually do work to reduce the particulates that reach the lungs. Suppose an N95 is imperfectly fitted and thus filters out 75 percent of the stuff coming in. That’s useful for air pollution (makes it like being in a place that is only 1/4 as polluted) and useless for disease prevention (since, for a widely circulating disease, the virus eventually gets in and then multiplies once in your body). So they’re unrelated phenomena.
@Philg: You’re right. I don’t really know what the basis for marriage is any longer, our politicians don’t care about it except for LGBTQIA+ people. Then it’s really important, but the whole thing is something a lot more people are avoiding now.
We’re going to suffer because of that. But this country doesn’t have time for the pain, and it cannot admit its mistakes.
Alex: Here’s a recent one from the elites… https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/04/opinion/marriage-divorce.html
I spent most of my 20s and 30s single, only to marry and then come to the conclusion that my marriage should end. Now I am single again. But I am not alone. My marriage ended during the pandemic, while I was at home with family. Since the pandemic began, my daughter and I have been living in what my family jokingly calls “the compound” — a house my mother and I bought together before I was married. She and my siblings and their families live there … Sometimes, when everyone is talking and laughing and joking at once, my daughter, who is young enough that language is still new to her, will raise her voice in a keening screech to try to join in the cacophony.
What has not materialized is the intense loneliness that people warned me would come with divorce. It was always interesting, telling people about the divorce. Some friends with small children almost panicked about what would come, about how the separation was too rash. But I am lucky in that most of my friends have lived lives falling in and out of partnerships. “You can go it alone, you know” was the much more common response.
But the cultural myths around coupledom are hard to resist. It was easy, in childhood, to simply decide there must be another way. It was harder, in adulthood, after years spent marinating in so many cultural stories about what marriage could promise — legitimacy, maturity, stability, strength — to resist that programming. Marriage, of course, can be all those things to many people, but my own brought something different, which has led to this desire to be alone again.
These lives threaten the communal narratives currently in place. But what is a threat to some can be to others a glimmer of a new world coming.
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It’s a new world and, therefore, presumably better. The young daughter won’t have a father, but she will learn all about Tinder at an early age.
With that Bentley, it should be possible to find a traditionally-minded 24 year old woman that will have sex with you. (Or so the automotive marketing industry would like you to believe)
Surprising all the rich new yorkers choose Fl*rida instead of Calif*. These guys can afford to live anywhere on the proceeds from their Wall St jobs.
That’s a disaster for Florida or any other place (except CA) they’ll decide to migrate to. They all possess that anti-Midas touch. A swarm of locusts might be a better metaphor.
Because, being leftist sociopaths themseles, they know better than anyone else about the obnoxiousness of the society of leftist sociopaths. We can only guess abouth the depth of their self-loathing from the outside. They know for sure.
A 55 y/o co-worker excitedly got engaged Christmas Eve to another divorcee (with three teenage children). The wedding is planned for New Years Eve 2022, timed to meet the chump’s termination of five years’ of $1500 monthly alimony payments to ex-wife no. 1.
BTW: Aston Martin and a few other high-end car manufacturers do a beautiful job with their gorgeous custom leather interiors. I appreciate the craftsmanship in those cars, and in many cases it’s craftswomanship. However I will never forgive them for turning the shifter into a knob like a recent Ford Escape and I wouldn’t buy one for that reason alone, even if I had the money. Unless they could make me a custom, proper shifter.
Knobs are for air conditioners and other similar equipment. If they can’t give me the option for a conventional shifter, I’m not interested.
Traditional shift knobs are for manual transmissions.
Knobs like the Bentley have are vestiges of actually driving the car, morphing into the future of being driven by the car.
Fun fact: the chance that a woman will get divorced goes up 6% for every sexual partner she has had.
Anon: What’s your source for this? https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability shows a significant increase in divorce probability from 0 to 1 and from 1 to 2 premarital sex partners, but after that not too much correlation. The chart doesn’t extend out far enough to cover NYC-based Tinder users, I don’t think. The right side of the chart, which shows a strong upward trend, ends in a “10+” category.
I imagine it would be tough to get good data in this area because almost nobody in the U.S. cares about family stability (if being a “single parent” is just as good as being married, why look into the question of how single parents are produced?).
@PhilG: source was psychologist on youtube, don’t have a link to stats