Elon Musk’s curious passion for population growth

Elon Musk simultaneously believes that (1) civilization will collapse because of a declining birth rate in the West, and (2) we’re entering a glorious age of humanoid robots.

Example:

From the Elon Musk biography:

In early 2021, Musk began mentioning at his executive meetings that Tesla should get serious about building a robot, and at one point he played for them a video of the impressive ones that Boston Dynamics were designing. “Humanoid robots are going to happen, like it or not,” he said, “and we should do it so we can guide it in a good direction.” The more he talked about it, the more excited he got. “This has the potential to be the far biggest thing we ever do, even bigger than a self-driving car,” he told his chief designer, Franz von Holzhausen.

Musk gave the specs: the robot should be about five-foot-eight, with an elfish and androgenous look so it “doesn’t feel like it could or would want to hurt you.” Thus was born Optimus, a humanoid robot to be made by the Tesla teams working on self-driving cars. Musk decided that it should be announced at an event called “AI Day,” which he scheduled for Tesla’s Palo Alto headquarters on August 19, 2021.

It was not a very polished event. The sixteen presenters were all male. The only woman was the actress who dressed up as the robot, and she didn’t do any fun hat-and-cane dance routines. There were no acrobatics. But in his slightly stuttering monotone, Musk was able to connect Optimus to Tesla’s plans for self-driving cars and the Dojo supercomputer. Optimus, he said, would learn to perform tasks without needing line-by-line instructions. Like a human, it would teach itself by observing. That would transform not only our economy, he said, but the way we live.

Even as he envisioned futuristic scenarios, Musk focused on making Optimus a business. By June 2022, the team had completed a simulation of robots carrying boxes around a factory. He liked the fact that, as he put it, “our robots are going to work harder than humans work.” He came to believe that Optimus would become a main driver of Tesla profits. “The Optimus humanoid robot,” he told analysts, “has the potential to be more significant than the vehicle business.”

I can’t understand how these thoughts are consistent. If human population were to slide back towards 4 billion or 2 billion, there might be a short-term labor shortage, but wouldn’t that labor shortage be solved by a working humanoid robot?

I think that Musk is completely wrong about civilization collapse even without the robot angle, incidentally. The median age in Japan is 49. People don’t say that’s a collapsed civilization compared to Gaza, where the median age is 18. The worldwide median age is about 30. There is no realistic scenario, as far as I’m aware, in which the median age of the world population ever exceeds Japan’s current median age. Therefore, Japan represents a worst-case scenario.

How bad is Japan doing? Not any worse than the typical advanced economy, says this tweet:

An astonishing paper this week finds that population explains virtually all of the difference in GDP growth in advanced economies over the last 30 years! “From 1998 to 2019, Japan has grown slightly faster than the U.S. in terms of per working-age adult.”

What drives population growth? For the Palestinians, the world’s most successful people demographically, it seems to be the UNRWA guarantees of food, health care, education, and other essentials, all funded by the US and EU taxpayers. A Palestinian can have 10 children, not work, and never worry that one will go hungry so long as there are taxpayers in Illinois and Germany. What about for economies that don’t receive guaranteed aid from foreigners?

This article on “The Baby Boom” by Arctotherium looks at a falling birth rate at the beginning of the 20th century followed by the familiar post-WWII baby boom (1946-1964; I was born in 1963). Wikipedia points out that our baby boom coincided with a marriage boom, but doesn’t offer a single agreed-on explanation for why the marriage boom occurred. Arctotherium points out that a baby bust is not an inevitable result of wealth:

The Baby Boom took place in what were, at the time, the wealthiest, most technologically advanced, longest lived, most urban, most educated, most individualist, and most scientifically sophisticated societies in human history, by a wide margin. And it took place during a time when all of these metrics (except maybe individualism) were very rapidly improving.

Consistently with Wikipedia, Arctotherium highlights the marriage boom and adds a theory for the cause:

So what caused this marriage boom? The answer appears to be a rise in young men’s status compared to young women’s. The marriage boom can be explained almost entirely by a combination of female labor force participation (down), young male wages (up), and male unemployment (down).

Wages are not the only way to measure status. After briefly reaching parity at the zenith of first wave feminism, young men during the Baby Boom again greatly exceeded their female counterparts in educational attainment.

The mechanism here is clear: young women want money and status, young men have relatively more money and status, women can get men’s money and status by marrying them. Marriage leads to babies, and thus the Baby Boom.

What caused the baby boom to end with a baby bust? A decline in marriage. Women didn’t have to get married to get money and status.

Affirmative Action in favor of women is common across the Boom countries, as is disproportionate female employment in state-created regulatory jobs such as HR. There are also thousands of organizations explicitly dedicated to promoting women’s careers at the expense of men’s, and almost none of the converse. These combine to artificially raise women’s wages above the market rate, and lower men’s.

But we don’t just have wages to consider, we also have taxes and transfers. Thanks to progressive taxation, men pay the vast majority of taxes while women receive the vast majority of benefits. Since married men are the most productive, while single women are the poorest (on a per-household basis), this is predominantly a transfer from married men to single women. This makes marriage less attractive to women; they can get men’s money for free, courtesy of the government, without having to give anything in return. The state serves as a surrogate husband.

Arctotherium has some data from New Zealand, noting “The welfare state has done to marriage what the Soviet Union did to agriculture: effectively collectivized it, with the corresponding horrendous set of incentives for individual men and women”:

But young men’s vs young women’s economic status is not the only factor determining marriage rates. It fully explains the boom, but not the bust. The explanation lies in the fact that second wave feminism thoroughly redefined marriage. It shifted from a patriarchal institution in which husbands had social (and some legal, though this was mostly dismantled by first wave feminism) power over their wives to one in which wives had effective legal power over the husbands (through the mechanisms of feminist family courts, greatly expanded definitions of abuse, and the replacement of the marriage model of the family with the child support model), and from a lifelong contract to one dissolvable at will (though the institution of no-fault divorce). In JD Unwin’s terms, we shift from a regime of absolute monogamy to one of modified monogamy. This had obvious and immediate consequences on marriage rates.

The mechanism through which no-fault divorce reduces marriage rates is simple. No-fault divorce eliminates the promise of lifelong commitment, greatly reducing the benefits of marriage for both parties. The other partner can bail at any time, for any reason. This particularly increases the costs for men through the mechanism of family courts (as divorce usually means he loses his assets, income, and children).

Arctotherium found an interesting data set on marital happiness:

Despite the increase in divorce rates, people aren’t happier in the marriages that have survived.

If Arctotherium is correct, the U.S. will never have a high birth rate again because marriage will never be attractive again. (The article has some pipe dream proposals for radically overhauling our society, e.g., “Roll back the welfare and pension state and lower income taxes.” It is safe to assume that none of these will ever happen and, therefore, marriage will never make the kind of sense for a young woman that it did from 1946-1964.)

Circling back to Elon Musk, what would be so bad about the U.S. population stagnating at 336 million or declining to 200 million (the 1970 level), especially if we had robots to help out the oldsters with domestic tasks?

Related… miscellaneous quotes from Michel Houellebecq’s novels (not in quote style for better readability):

A bachelor who breathes his last at the age of sixty-four is hardly the stuff of tragedy,

I thought about Annelise’s life—and the life of every Western woman. In the morning she probably blow-dried her hair, then she thought about what to wear, as befitted her professional status, whether “stylish” or “sexy,” most likely “stylish” in her case. Either way, it was a complex calculation, and it must have taken her a while to get ready before dropping the kids off at day care, then she spent the day e-mailing, on the phone, in various meetings, and once she got home, around nine, exhausted (Bruno was the one who picked the kids up, who made them dinner—he had the hours of a civil servant), she’d collapse, get into a sweatshirt and yoga pants, and that’s how she’d greet her lord and master, and some part of him must have known—had to have known—that he was fucked, and some part of her must have known that she was fucked, and that things wouldn’t get better over the years. The children would get bigger, the demands at work would increase, as if automatically, not to mention the sagging of the flesh.

Bruno and Annelise must be divorced by now. That’s how it goes nowadays. A century ago, in Huysmans’s time, they would have stayed together, and maybe they wouldn’t have been so unhappy after all.

my body was the seat of various painful afflictions—headaches, rashes, toothaches, hemorrhoids—that followed one after another, without interruption, and almost never left me in peace—and I was only forty-four! What would it be like when I was fifty, sixty, older? I’d be no more than a jumble of organs in slow decomposition, my life an unending torment, grim, joyless, and mean.

On 14 December 1967 the government passed the Neuwirth Act on contraception at its first reading. Although not yet paid for by social security, the pill would now be freely available in pharmacies. It was this which offered a whole section of society access to the sexual revolution, which until then had been reserved for professionals, artists and senior management—and some small businessmen. It is interesting to note that the “sexual revolution” was sometimes portrayed as a communal utopia, whereas in fact it was simply another stage in the historical rise of individualism. As the lovely word “household” suggests, the couple and the family would be the last bastion of primitive communism in liberal society. The sexual revolution was to destroy these intermediary communities, the last to separate the individual from the market. The destruction continues to this day.

Children existed solely to inherit a man’s trade, his moral code and his property. This was taken for granted among the aristocracy, but merchants, craftsmen and peasants also bought into the idea, so it became the norm at every level of society. That’s all gone now: I work for someone else, I rent my apartment from someone else, there’s nothing for my son to inherit. I have no craft to teach him, I haven’t a clue what he might do when he’s older. By the time he grows up, the rules I lived by will have no value—he will live in another universe. If a man accepts the fact that everything must change, then he accepts that life is reduced to nothing more than the sum of his own experience; past and future generations mean nothing to him. That’s how we live now. For a man to bring a child into the world now is meaningless.

After divorce—once the family unit has broken down—a man’s relationship with his children is nonsensical. Kids are a trap that has closed, they are the enemy—you have to pay for them all your life—and they outlive you.”

17 thoughts on “Elon Musk’s curious passion for population growth

  1. At the same time Elon defends his polyamorous lifestyle with the depopulation thing, he acknowledges somewhat of a housing shortage.

    “if just ~4% of Earth moves here, housing would need to double, which is impossible, causing a massive homeless problem and house prices to be astronomically unaffordable.”

    Japan actually has a 255% debt to GDP ratio. Part of the reason is a zero interest rate policy going back much earlier than US but part is also a shrinking population. There is a need to make due if there isn’t a larger future generation to pass the cost to.

    • lion: Thanks for that. If humanoid robots will build millions of new houses every year, why is Musk worried about our current housing shortage combined with the tens of millions of asylum-seekers who are arriving?

  2. what would be so bad about the U.S. population stagnating at 336 million or declining to 200 million (the 1970 level), especially if we had robots to help out the oldsters with domestic tasks? Nothing.

  3. “what would be so bad about the U.S. population stagnating at 336 million or declining to 200 million (the 1970 level), especially if we had robots to help out the oldsters with domestic tasks?”

    I would say that whoever controls the robots will, in turn, control the people. I hear a good bit of talk about robots “freeing” or “helping” us, but not much talk on who will control the bots or how they will be controlled.

  4. Women can marry a man, or marry the state, given the stats that PhilG quoted…sometimes the state is higher-status than the man available to her!

    Peter Brimelow wrote the book “Alien Nation” in the early 1990s and none of his arguments that I recall, have gone stale in the decades since.

    There was never any need for massive immigration and having a USA with about 240 million population and stable as he suggested would have resulted in a prosperous, powerful nation with none of the stressors we see in society and the economy being present, such as illegals, “press 2 for Spanish”, mal-investment in housing and the run-up in property prices which has impoverished and demoralized succeeding generations, etc.

  5. Lies, damned lies and statistics. Did lower women employment numbers caused increase in marriages or did increase in marriages caused lower women employment numbers?
    At least this citations seems to be of an original, think Dr. Summers, vs copied, think Dr. Gay. But in any case the value of the inference is zero. On the bright side, at least authors do not protest and burn businesses and publish useless books instead.

  6. A comment on post-war baby-booms. Historically, when life is precarious, people have more kids. The WWII generation came home and did the usual. A review I did of the first two years of Vietnam casualties indicated an over-abundance of “Jr” born as the eldest son of large veteran families. More interesting to me was that the further from the “rubber meets the road” infantry/flyer world the dad was, the more likely the kids were to enlist vs be drafted. The closer to death dad was, the more kids he had- George Bush Sr. had 5 kids and JFK would probably have had more if Jackie O was willing. Nixon, a rear area guy, stopped at two. Conflict breeds kids. See Gaza.

    • Dave: Are you sure that the U.S. Baby Boom coincided with life being precarious? That post-WWII period is often looked back on as a golden age in which a single income sufficed to purchase a single-family home and a middle class lifestyle (it’s a lot easier to have 3-4 kids when you live in a single-family house than when you’re in a small apartment). Saudi Arabia offered all of its citizens a fully funded lifestyle starting around 1980 and the result was a huge population boom. In the U.S., the people who have the highest birthrate are those who are guaranteed shelter, food, health care, smartphone, broadband, etc. at taxpayer expense AND those who are rich. The working class leads the most precarious existence (they have to pay rent, do without health insurance (earn too much for Medicaid), etc.). https://twitter.com/thehauer/status/1149055146451709957 has the chart of fertility by income and it is those with the “iron rice bowl” who have the most demographic success.

      https://philip.greenspun.com/blog/2021/10/19/112-month-to-live-in-a-brand-new-house-in-bowie-maryland/ is a post about my parents buying a brand new air-conditioned house in the DC suburbs, just after the Baby Boom, for $112/month. Adjusted for official inflation, the $15,990 house cost $145,000 in 2021 dollars, a time when Zillow said that a median house in the same suburb was selling for $500,000. My mom quit her job after my older sister arrived, so this was all done on a mid-level government employee job (my dad’s). A GS-11 (starting grade for a Ph.D. or a less educated person can work his/her/zir/their way up into it) in MD gets paid about $90,000 per year. Can a $90k/year earner afford a $500,000 house, property tax, Maryland state income tax, electricity and other utilities, insurance, etc., plus a car and expenses for three kids? (my parents had only one car)

    • LOL. If you can find a Silicon Valley exec who took less drugs…

      This is basically an attempt to make E.M. to give up Twitter and his free speech project. If he’s not an idiot, he will sue the pants off WSJ. He certainly has the means to destroy that nest of spooks and crooks.

  7. At 60, and with two children and no grand children as of yet, I find it hard to imagine how anyone would want to bring children into today’s world. On the one hand, we live better as a whole than we ever have, but on the other crime where I am (Memphis TN) is completely out of control, and poverty is off the charts (25% of adults and 40% of children under 18 live below the poverty line here) and we had 352 murders here in 2023 in a city of 621k people. The respect and common decency people had seems to be a thing of the past and there seems little incentive to bring it back. Again, all perspective from living where I live.

    Most people don’t trust the govn. or govn. officials. I will only speak for myself, but there seems to be no media source that is not biased toward a liberal or a conservative agenda, and far too much miss information being taken as fact by people who are either victims of confirmation bias, or who are simply too lazy to search out the facts. To make matters worse, with the advent of AI on the horizon, most seem unaware that even if we do end up with some form or Universal Basic Income, there is going to be a lengthy period where people are displaced with no way to sustain themselves before any such system is put into place. Those with no money to fall back on, and no family or friends who are not in the same situation, will fall through the cracks quickly.

    On the one hand, I may live to seem some of the greatest technological achievements in the history of man kind, but on the other, I may see civilization as I’ve known it, spiral into the abyss. We are all becoming more (personally) isolated, and people are more polarized against one another, even on the simplest and most benign of issues. I could go on (and on and on and on), but I’ll stop there. So why (OH WHY) would anyone in their right mind want to bring children into a world like this?

    • ScottR, crime, up in the recent years, is at historic lows on historic scale. Assuming you are not involved in violent crime and brought up your children not to get involved in violent crimes, how come you are not having descendants is going to reduce crime?
      What is up is junk information poisoning using greatest human achievements, ie TV, www and mobile phone.
      People are getting brainwashed and self-depressed. Memphis is one of the highest crime areas in the US. Why would not peaceful people move out? US is full of diverse communities where violent crime is rare.

  8. I’m confused. I don’t recall saying that having fewer descendants would reduce violent crime. I was simply saying that I have a clear understanding of why people are reluctant to have children these days.

    As for why I haven’t left Memphis, I have a successful 25+ year career with a Memphis company. When I retire I will most assuredly be leaving for a small and less troubled community.

    • This https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/us/tn/memphis/crime-rate-statistics (statistics is the wrong word, just data) says that in the past 20 years violent crime dropped in US overall, was up and down and now lower overall in Tennessee, and up in Memphis about 25%. Since crime in Memphis was 3.5 times higher then in US overall, now it is over 5 time higher. While 25% swing up is significant it is hardly new thing for Memphis. Not making sense to make reproductive decision based on it now, if it allowed for bringing children in the world last century.
      I am grateful to my parents for having me, even though violent crime rate back where I was born was high, something that people experienced in their lives regularly and had to be taken into account while going around your business.

  9. Another rant by PhilG essentially complaining and whining about his having to pay child support for his offspring in his failed marriage. Note to PhilG: keep your wiener in your pants or get it snipped!

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